9800XT to X1650 PRO
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From: Rob on 2 Jan 2008 10:05 I think I've done something really silly :o( I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the 9800XT 256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the 9800XT is a 256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this is where the 9800 may beat it. Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better? Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a bit fuller. I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which doesn't incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case. Cheers Rob -- Red meat isn't bad for you....Blue, Green fuzzy meat is bad for you. Dell Dimension 8300 Desktop P4 3.0GHz 1GB RAM Windows Vista Ultimate 32Bit ATI Radeon 9800 XT Creative SB Audigy 2
From: Augustus on 2 Jan 2008 12:33 "Rob" <N(a)Spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:65KdnZIussX5NebanZ2dnUVZ8umdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >I think I've done something really silly :o( > > I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the > 9800XT 256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the > 9800XT is a 256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this is > where the 9800 may beat it. > > Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better? > > Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a > bit fuller. > > I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something > like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the > Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which doesn't > incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case. I've done this upgrade (for my son's system) and benchmarked the results in games and 3Dmark. His system was a Dell Dimension 8200 with a P4 2.6 and 1gig PC800 RDRAM. Performance was increased by 30-45% depending on the game and bench. He modtly plays all of the HL2 and other Orange Box games. The difference here was dramatic in terms of looks and speed, even though it is a 128bit card vs 256bit. The previous card was an ATI 9800 Pro flashed with an XT BIOS so it's a pretty relevant comparison. There were three major issues, however...and two are pretty big ones. 1) The Diamond X1650 Pro AGP 256Mb card I ordered for $75 was specifically ordered as a 256Mb card because it's the only kind Diamond made that came with DDR3 at 1400Mhz. All of the 512Mb cards, regardless of manufacturer, are 800Mhz DDR2. Some of the 256Mb cards are DDR2. A 600Mhz difference in memory speed on a video card is huge, and will reduce the amount of gain. Will still be better, but not as much 2) Many Dell Dimension 8200/8300 series desktops simply won't function with an X1650 Pro. You put it in, hook up the extra power lead, and presto....dead box. I picked up a proper 450W replacement power supply thinking this was the problem, and exact same thing. Pull the card out, stick it my wife's Barton 3200 box and works fine with a generic 350W. Hmmmm...Some digging on Dell forums found similar experiences. Odd, since the same system had been upgraded to the 9800 Pro from it's original Geforce2 card. But incurable, nevertheless. So those increased benchmarks I told you about were from my wife's Barton 3200 box which my son now has. I built her a new one. 3) The Catalysts past 7.6 or 7.7 are broken for 3D functionality on the AGP cards. Which was curable (I run the 7.5's) but it was icing on the cake after the other screwaround. So yes, it's a good uipgrade for the $$$$. But be aware you may have issues.
From: Rob on 2 Jan 2008 13:17 "Augustus" <no_one(a)nowhere.net> wrote in message news:zVPej.25494$wy2.18539(a)edtnps90... > > "Rob" <N(a)Spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:65KdnZIussX5NebanZ2dnUVZ8umdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>I think I've done something really silly :o( >> >> I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the >> 9800XT 256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the >> 9800XT is a 256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this >> is where the 9800 may beat it. >> >> Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better? >> >> Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a >> bit fuller. >> >> I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something >> like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the >> Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which >> doesn't incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case. > > I've done this upgrade (for my son's system) and benchmarked the results > in games and 3Dmark. His system was a Dell Dimension 8200 with a P4 2.6 > and 1gig PC800 RDRAM. Performance was increased by 30-45% depending on > the game and bench. He modtly plays all of the HL2 and other Orange Box > games. The difference here was dramatic in terms of looks and speed, even > though it is a 128bit card vs 256bit. The previous card was an ATI 9800 > Pro flashed with an XT BIOS so it's a pretty relevant comparison. There > were three major issues, however...and two are pretty big ones. > > 1) The Diamond X1650 Pro AGP 256Mb card I ordered for $75 was specifically > ordered as a 256Mb card because it's the only kind Diamond made that came > with DDR3 at 1400Mhz. All of the 512Mb cards, regardless of manufacturer, > are 800Mhz DDR2. Some of the 256Mb cards are DDR2. A 600Mhz difference in > memory speed on a video card is huge, and will reduce the amount of gain. > Will still be better, but not as much > > 2) Many Dell Dimension 8200/8300 series desktops simply won't function > with an X1650 Pro. You put it in, hook up the extra power lead, and > presto....dead box. I picked up a proper 450W replacement power supply > thinking this was the problem, and exact same thing. Pull the card out, > stick it my wife's Barton 3200 box and works fine with a generic 350W. > Hmmmm...Some digging on Dell forums found similar experiences. Odd, since > the same system had been upgraded to the 9800 Pro from it's original > Geforce2 card. But incurable, nevertheless. So those increased benchmarks > I told you about were from my wife's Barton 3200 box which my son now has. > I built her a new one. > > 3) The Catalysts past 7.6 or 7.7 are broken for 3D functionality on the > AGP cards. Which was curable (I run the 7.5's) but it was icing on the > cake after the other screwaround. > > So yes, it's a good uipgrade for the $$$$. But be aware you may have > issues. > > > Hey, Thanks for the heads-up. Ok good to know that I'll get some sort of gain with the new card. I'm not going to be playing the latest games with it (leave all that to the Xbox 360). I've never ever had problems with any of the ATI drivers (currently running latest CAT 7.12's) on the 9800XT card. Hopefully I can just fit the new card and reinstall 7.12, I've heard other ppl run these with no problems at all, but I've also heard the opposite, so I'll keep you posted with regards to any issues. I'm more worried about the PSU though. I've posted similar concerns on Dell NG and a very reliable source tells me the X1650 will run perfectly ok with Dell OEM PSU. Call me Mr. Skeptical but I've earmarked a 570W PSU from Maplin's which I'll pick up this weekend. I'm going to fit the new card first just to see what happens (they assure me nothing will get fried!) the worse that could happen is that the PC just won't boot up. I'm saving for the X1950Pro anyway (should have it in a couple of months) so either way I've GOT to get the new PSU. I just hope it fits into the box and all connections are ok. Again I'm assured that Dimension 8300 uses standard ATX connectors. No crappy Dell proprietary stuff. If I need to revert back to CAT 7.5's, where can I get 'em? Cheers Rob -- Red meat isn't bad for you....Blue, Green fuzzy meat is bad for you. Dell Dimension 8300 Desktop P4 3.0GHz 1GB RAM Windows Vista Ultimate 32Bit ATI Radeon 9800 XT Creative SB Audigy 2
From: Craig Coope on 2 Jan 2008 17:38 On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:05:07 -0000, "Rob" <N(a)Spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >I think I've done something really silly :o( > >I've just ordered a Sapphire X1650 Pro 512mb AGP card to replace the 9800XT >256mb but I don't think it'll improve things much. I believe the 9800XT is a >256bit card and the X1650 is only 128bit, I'm thinking this is where the >9800 may beat it. > >Anyone done this upgrade? What do you think, any better? > >Eventually I'll go for the X1950 (XT or PRO?) when my piggy bank gets a bit >fuller. > >I'm looking to replace my under powered dell OEM PSU (305W) to something >like a 550 ~ 600w. Any recommendations (UK retailer)? I believe the >Dimension 8300 can now take any ATX PSU. I'm looking for one which doesn't >incorporate the on/off switch as don't fancy hacking the PC case. > >Cheers > >Rob I just went from 9800XT to X1950 Pro 512meg and the increase in performance was massive... I'm able to play Bioshock and COD4 on high settings.... -- The Zero ST
From: First of One on 2 Jan 2008 19:55 I think Dell kept the same model numbers through several platform changes. http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8300/sm/specs.htm The latest Dimension 8300 uses the i875P chipset with DDR333 or DDR400 RAM, so it is a couple generations newer than the i820/i850 boards that used RDRAM. In fact the i875P is probably the most compatible AGP chipset available. The other caveats you listed still apply, but I think the X1650 Pro will function in Rob's machine. To make matters more interesting, the X1650 XT draws less power than the 9800XT (55 W vs. 60 W), so a lower-powered X1650 Pro *should* not require a PSU upgrade. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x1650xt_4.html http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-powercons_7.html -- "War is the continuation of politics by other means. It can therefore be said that politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed." "Augustus" <no_one(a)nowhere.net> wrote in message news:zVPej.25494$wy2.18539(a)edtnps90... > I've done this upgrade (for my son's system) and benchmarked the results > in games and 3Dmark. His system was a Dell Dimension 8200 with a P4 2.6 > and 1gig PC800 RDRAM. Performance was increased by 30-45% depending on > the game and bench. He modtly plays all of the HL2 and other Orange Box > games. The difference here was dramatic in terms of looks and speed, even > though it is a 128bit card vs 256bit. The previous card was an ATI 9800 > Pro flashed with an XT BIOS so it's a pretty relevant comparison. There > were three major issues, however...and two are pretty big ones. .... > 2) Many Dell Dimension 8200/8300 series desktops simply won't function > with an X1650 Pro. You put it in, hook up the extra power lead, and > presto....dead box. I picked up a proper 450W replacement power supply > thinking this was the problem, and exact same thing. Pull the card out, > stick it my wife's Barton 3200 box and works fine with a generic 350W. > Hmmmm...Some digging on Dell forums found similar experiences. Odd, since > the same system had been upgraded to the 9800 Pro from it's original > Geforce2 card. But incurable, nevertheless. So those increased benchmarks > I told you about were from my wife's Barton 3200 box which my son now has. > I built her a new one.
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