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From: 00_DotNetWarrior on 6 Jan 2006 02:17
Thanks a lot for all the comments, I think I will get a better one. I went
to tigerdirect, they carry APC Smart-UPS 1500 VA and they also carry
Cyberpower CPS1500AVR (1500 VA) Is this Cyberpower any good? It said it's
design for running server, it's like 30% less expensive than Smart-UPS...
any idea?

Thanks

Alex.



"John McGaw" <nobody(a)nowh.ere> wrote in message
news:4k_uf.1779$0y2.1104(a)bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> 00_DotNetWarrior wrote:
>> I have been using APC products at least for 6-7 years and I have 10 of
>> their products in the office and I am happy with them UNTIL recently. I
>> have one of my regular desktops I left it on all the time protected by
>> APC Back-Ups Office 500 VA, I went out for 2 hours and came back. The
>> computer was off and the whole room got burning smell. I found that my
>> APC was not working, So I examined my computer, monitor everything were
>> fine when plugged directly to the elec outlet.
>>
>> Now, I opened up the APC, Look at the photos!!
>>
>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/1.jpg
>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/2.jpg
>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/3.jpg
>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/4.jpg
>>
>> The unit was not overloaded, and I checked my log file from other APCs
>> software, there wasn't any surge during the day.
>>
>> Now, the questions are:
>>
>> 1. What caused this? anyone had similar experience?
>>
>> 2. If I am using APC for my servers (I do have several servers running
>> 1000VA series), I am SO WORRIED this will happen and shut down by itself
>> like this. How can I prevent this and WHAT'S THE POINT of having a
>> backup when APC can't even function by itself?
>>
>> 3. See the photos? The burning is pretty bad, it can actually cause fire.
>> I should think about APC product if I were to buy again.
>>
>>
>> Alex
>
>
> And how many pieces of electronic equipment do you own that will never and
> can never fail? Was the UPS supplying a computer controlling, for example,
> your life support system?
>
> I'd say that if the UPS failing didn't damage your computer, and given
> that the UPS in question is about the cheapest model that APC makes,
> things worked out pretty well all things considered. By all means, go and
> buy some other manufacturer's UPS if it makes you happy but if you
> continue to buy from the bottom rung you probably shouldn't expect any
> better experience and may well do far worse.
>
> --
> John McGaw
> [Knoxville, TN, USA]
> http://johnmcgaw.com


From: Paul on 6 Jan 2006 08:25
In article <43be1a43$0$1827$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, "00_DotNetWarrior"
<00_DotNetWarrior(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot for all the comments, I think I will get a better one. I went
> to tigerdirect, they carry APC Smart-UPS 1500 VA and they also carry
> Cyberpower CPS1500AVR (1500 VA) Is this Cyberpower any good? It said it's
> design for running server, it's like 30% less expensive than Smart-UPS...
> any idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Alex.
>

CyberPower CPS1500AVR 1500VA 950W 6 Outlets UPS - Retail $210
http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp?item=N82E16842102006

"Just make sure it's in a well ventilated spot cause this thing gets HOT"
I hope the author of that comment is referring to operation on batteries...

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/CPS1500AVR.asp

The specs are in the next doc. Transfer time 4msec (the ATX power supply
hold up time must be greater than the UPS transfer time, and the ATX
supply in your computer might be in the 16msec range or so. You can
look those up, but I don't see a problem here). Simulated sine wave output.
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/downloads/CPS1500AVR-RM_Specs.pdf

APC SmartUPS / 1500VA / 980Watt / SUA1500RM2U RackMount UPS $590
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=708758&CatId=235

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500RM2U

User manual.
http://sturgeon.apcc.com/techref.nsf/partnum/990-1194/$FILE/990-1194_REV02_eng.pdf

Specs (rack mount page). Transfer time 2msec plus detect time.
I cannot find a statement about the quality of the sine wave output
in terms of words like "simulated" or "true" sinewave. I expect
either is good enough for computers.
http://apcmedia.apcc.com/pdf_downloads/litpdfs/996-1060i.pdf

There simply is not enough info to make a clear decision. Perhaps
seeing a picture of what is inside would help. I couldn't find
any useful images via images.google.com or
www.altavista.com/image/default

One of the comments on Newegg was "Do not ship via UPS - product
arrives destroyed" or the like. Perhaps part of the decision will
be where you can get the thing, that adequate packaging and a good
shipper will be used. This is one of the reasons that I didn't get
mine over the Internet. (Too bad they don't ship the chassis and the
battery or batteries separately.)

I think I know which one I would buy, but I don't think you want
any irrational input :-) And based on the criterion of unit weight,
they are both heavy, so that trick won't help in this case. (ATX
power supplies for computers, for example, have a correlation between
unit weight and quality.)

Another comment, and something I didn't ask in the first thread.
You know you aren't supposed to connect inductive loads to this
thing. Large motors (a bar fridge's compressor) are a no-no.
Try to stick with computer components. The arcing and sparking
of an inductive load could lead to premature failure of something
inside the UPS, like when it is on battery.

Paul

>
>
> "John McGaw" <nobody(a)nowh.ere> wrote in message
> news:4k_uf.1779$0y2.1104(a)bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > 00_DotNetWarrior wrote:
> >> I have been using APC products at least for 6-7 years and I have 10 of
> >> their products in the office and I am happy with them UNTIL recently. I
> >> have one of my regular desktops I left it on all the time protected by
> >> APC Back-Ups Office 500 VA, I went out for 2 hours and came back. The
> >> computer was off and the whole room got burning smell. I found that my
> >> APC was not working, So I examined my computer, monitor everything were
> >> fine when plugged directly to the elec outlet.
> >>
> >> Now, I opened up the APC, Look at the photos!!
> >>
> >> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/1.jpg
> >> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/2.jpg
> >> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/3.jpg
> >> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/4.jpg
> >>
> >> The unit was not overloaded, and I checked my log file from other APCs
> >> software, there wasn't any surge during the day.
> >>
> >> Now, the questions are:
> >>
> >> 1. What caused this? anyone had similar experience?
> >>
> >> 2. If I am using APC for my servers (I do have several servers running
> >> 1000VA series), I am SO WORRIED this will happen and shut down by itself
> >> like this. How can I prevent this and WHAT'S THE POINT of having a
> >> backup when APC can't even function by itself?
> >>
> >> 3. See the photos? The burning is pretty bad, it can actually cause fire.
> >> I should think about APC product if I were to buy again.
> >>
> >>
> >> Alex
> >
> >
> > And how many pieces of electronic equipment do you own that will never and
> > can never fail? Was the UPS supplying a computer controlling, for example,
> > your life support system?
> >
> > I'd say that if the UPS failing didn't damage your computer, and given
> > that the UPS in question is about the cheapest model that APC makes,
> > things worked out pretty well all things considered. By all means, go and
> > buy some other manufacturer's UPS if it makes you happy but if you
> > continue to buy from the bottom rung you probably shouldn't expect any
> > better experience and may well do far worse.
> >
> > --
> > John McGaw
> > [Knoxville, TN, USA]
> > http://johnmcgaw.com
From: hdrdtd on 6 Jan 2006 10:00
Here's my 2 cents worth.

When it comes to Servers in a corporate enviornment, I get very very
conservative. serves are meant to run 24/7/365 (excluding scheduled downtime
for maintenance).
You typically have a number (large or small) of users that are expecting
that server to always be up.
when considering equipment for servers whether it be a UPS, or tape backup,
or drives, etc..... This is one place where you don't want to pinch pennies.
In the long run it doesn't pay off.

as far as the UPS issue at hand, whether to go with a brand name that's well
know and that has been around for a long time such as APC, or another brand
such as Cyberpower which I myself have never heard of (doesn't mean they're
not a good product), I'd go for the brand name in a heart-beat, even if it
costs a bit more. after all, if it ever does fail, and the server is down,
how many min of lost productivity does it take to pay for the amount of
money you saved when you chose the UPS.?

BTW, It just so happens that probably 90% of the UPS's we use at work are
APC. we've been using them for at least the last 16 years I've been here,
and overall, they've served us well.

A few things to remember as others have pointed out already.

The batteries will not last forever. test them periodacally. I've lost count
how many UPS's I've run across sitting next to someones desk that had red
alarm lights lit indicated a battery failure. when I stop and ask the user
if they knew the red light was on, they would just say, 'yep. been lit for a
long time now'

We now have a regular maintenance shedule now where we have a few spares and
on a regular basis, we'll take a UPS out of service, replacing it with a
spare then our electronics department will perform a complete checkout of
the UPS replacing batteries where needed.

UPS's are not meant to power you PC for any signifigant period of time. They
are designed (when sized properly) to be able to supply enough power to run
your system long enough for you to perform a controlled shut-down of the
system. That's all. Typicaly we'll size a UPS to be able to handle the load
of the system for roughly 20 min. If you want something to power your PC for
a longer period of time, then you need to look at battery-backup systems.

The higher rated/priced UPS's will also normally have a serial port on the
UPS that can be connected to your server. using the software that came with
the UPS and the serial cable, the UPS can automatically signal the server
that it has lost AC power and to automatically signal the server to shut
down gracefully.

Using that same serial port and software, it will normally allow you to
monitor the condition of the UPS and it's batteries. For the UPS's that we
use on systems that don't contain a PC, we install the UPS software on a
laptoptop. we then use the laptop and a serial cable to go around to all
those UPS's on a regular basis to check the condition of the UPS, the
condition of the batteries, etc.

Also, most UPS manufacture's will have a wizard somewhere on thier web site
that you can use to input what kind of equipment you want to hook up to the
UPS and how long you want to be able to power the equipment, and it will
tell you which model and size is best suited for your needs.


"00_DotNetWarrior" <00_DotNetWarrior(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43be1a43$0$1827$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
> Thanks a lot for all the comments, I think I will get a better one. I
> went to tigerdirect, they carry APC Smart-UPS 1500 VA and they also carry
> Cyberpower CPS1500AVR (1500 VA) Is this Cyberpower any good? It said it's
> design for running server, it's like 30% less expensive than Smart-UPS...
> any idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
> "John McGaw" <nobody(a)nowh.ere> wrote in message
> news:4k_uf.1779$0y2.1104(a)bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>> 00_DotNetWarrior wrote:
>>> I have been using APC products at least for 6-7 years and I have 10 of
>>> their products in the office and I am happy with them UNTIL recently. I
>>> have one of my regular desktops I left it on all the time protected by
>>> APC Back-Ups Office 500 VA, I went out for 2 hours and came back. The
>>> computer was off and the whole room got burning smell. I found that my
>>> APC was not working, So I examined my computer, monitor everything were
>>> fine when plugged directly to the elec outlet.
>>>
>>> Now, I opened up the APC, Look at the photos!!
>>>
>>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/1.jpg
>>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/2.jpg
>>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/3.jpg
>>> http://portal.aidmas.com/Temp/Customer/98712/4.jpg
>>>
>>> The unit was not overloaded, and I checked my log file from other APCs
>>> software, there wasn't any surge during the day.
>>>
>>> Now, the questions are:
>>>
>>> 1. What caused this? anyone had similar experience?
>>>
>>> 2. If I am using APC for my servers (I do have several servers running
>>> 1000VA series), I am SO WORRIED this will happen and shut down by
>>> itself like this. How can I prevent this and WHAT'S THE POINT of having
>>> a backup when APC can't even function by itself?
>>>
>>> 3. See the photos? The burning is pretty bad, it can actually cause
>>> fire. I should think about APC product if I were to buy again.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex
>>
>>
>> And how many pieces of electronic equipment do you own that will never
>> and can never fail? Was the UPS supplying a computer controlling, for
>> example, your life support system?
>>
>> I'd say that if the UPS failing didn't damage your computer, and given
>> that the UPS in question is about the cheapest model that APC makes,
>> things worked out pretty well all things considered. By all means, go and
>> buy some other manufacturer's UPS if it makes you happy but if you
>> continue to buy from the bottom rung you probably shouldn't expect any
>> better experience and may well do far worse.
>>
>> --
>> John McGaw
>> [Knoxville, TN, USA]
>> http://johnmcgaw.com
>
>


From: Mxsmanic on 6 Jan 2006 13:24
00_DotNetWarrior writes:

> Thanks a lot for all the comments, I think I will get a better one. I went
> to tigerdirect, they carry APC Smart-UPS 1500 VA and they also carry
> Cyberpower CPS1500AVR (1500 VA) Is this Cyberpower any good? It said it's
> design for running server, it's like 30% less expensive than Smart-UPS...
> any idea?

I prefer APC.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
From: James Sweet on 6 Jan 2006 22:27
00_DotNetWarrior wrote:
> Thanks a lot for all the comments, I think I will get a better one. I went
> to tigerdirect, they carry APC Smart-UPS 1500 VA and they also carry
> Cyberpower CPS1500AVR (1500 VA) Is this Cyberpower any good? It said it's
> design for running server, it's like 30% less expensive than Smart-UPS...
> any idea?
>


I've never heard of Cyberpower, but the name doesn't exactly reek of
quality. Personally I'd get an APC or a Tripp-Lite and not the cheapest
consumer grade one they make either, something mid-range intended for
office use.
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