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From: GTalbot on 16 Apr 2008 16:59
On 16 avr, 07:46, mehstg1319 <meh...(a)gmail.com> wrote:

http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~bp6ar/bus_intel/matrix/matrix.html


> > > Basically, the problem is that the ticks on the grid look perfectly
> > > placed in IE but wrong in Firefox, and when I edit it to match
> > > Firefox, it looks strange in IE.
>
> > > Any ideas?
>
> > There are a fair few validation errors for the html via

<http://validator.w3.org/>


Paul,

First fix all validation markup errors. This is the first step to do
with your webpage. We can not go any further without fixing this
issue. Fix CSS errors if there are any. If you need help on this, then
visit:

Using Web Standards in your Web Pages
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages:Making_your_page_using_web_standards_-_how_to
and
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages

Where can I validate my webpages? How to validate webpages?
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages:Making_your_page_using_web_standards_-_how_to#Where_can_I_validate_my_webpages.3F_How_to_validate_webpages.3F

You have to understand that there is no correct or incorrect webpage
rendering when the markup code is invalid. So fix that and we will
give you more info, recommendations, useful suggestions.

I agree with Bergamot. You misuse div and br; you over-use div and br:
lack of semantic too.

{
Divitis and classitis
Related to <span> mania. Adding unnecessary div elements and class
attributes.
Why? See “<span> mania” and “lack of semantics”.
}
Web development mistakes, redux
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200408/web_development_mistakes_redux/

"
Classitis and Divitis
A common error of beginning CSS coders is to use far too many <div>
tags and class attributes (...)
"

Web Page Development: Best Practices
http://developer.apple.com/internet/webcontent/bestwebdev.html

"
Superfluous elements and classes
When starting out with CSS, it’s common to make the mistake of using
unnecessary XHTML elements, superfluous classes, and extra <div>
elements. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the code will be invalid,
but it counteracts one of the reasons of separating structure from
presentation; to get simpler, cleaner markup.
"

Developing With Web Standards
Recommendations and best practices
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/css/#css

Fix your validation markup errors: then we will be able to offer
additional assistance.

Why we won't help you
http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you

Regards, Gérard
From: dorayme on 16 Apr 2008 21:02
In article <4805ecda$1_4(a)news.bluewin.ch>,
John Hosking <John(a)DELETE.Hosking.name.INVALID> wrote:

> mehstg1319 wrote:
> > On 16 Apr, 11:04, dorayme wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <yaddayaddapointlesslylongbutabridgedM-Id(a)googlegroups.com>,
> >> mehstg1319 wrote:
>
> >>> Here is the link:
> >>> http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~bp6ar/bus_intel/matrix/matrix.html
> >>> Basically, the problem is that the ticks on the grid look perfectly
> >>> placed in IE but wrong in Firefox, and when I edit it to match
> >>> Firefox, it looks strange in IE.
>
> If by "ticks" you mean the question marks I see in FF and the empty
> squares I see in IE6, then I guess you're talking about their vertical
> alignment with the left-hand labels. Yes?
>
> >> There are a fair few validation errors for the html via
> >>
> >> <http://validator.w3.org/>
> >>
> >> But never mind this for now. Why are you not using an html table,
> >> something that is particularly appropriate, that is known to be very
> >> cross browser friendly in many ways?
> >>
> >> Up the text size and see how your page goes into fits (in FF, View menu,
> >> Text size, Larger a couple or more clicks). In your lists you are doing
> >> things like width: 80px; What do you expect will happen when the text,
> >> your html text ticks (which are not and cannot be pixeled successfully)
> >> don't fit in and worse.
>
> >>
> >> Use a table and you won't then even have to specify widths for the cell.
> >> They will shrink and grow to fit. Why have you forsaken the benign magic
> >> of tables for the sorcery of lists and floating. They don't even have
> >> the advantage of floats by wrapping.
> >>
>
> >
> > First of all, thanks alot for taking the time to help me. I have done
> > as you said
>
> albeit only partially
>
> > and redesigned the grid to use standard tables. There
> > still seems to be some discrepancies between how the site looks in IE
> > and Firefox.
>
> You do know that they are *always* going to be different for most
> non-trivial pages, don't you? They are, after all, different browsers.
>
> >
> > new version is uploaded here:
> > http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~bp6ar/bus_intel/matrixtable/matrix.html
> >
> > Any ideas
>
> Make the /whole/ table a table, including the text labels on the left.
>
> Also, I would say it is time to make your code validate (dorayme's
> remark notwithstanding). Any time you're bashing your head against
> differences between IE and FF, remember to check your code validity. It
> may not solve the problems you're having, but it almost never hurts.
>


Most of this I agree with, I see ticks, John sees ?s, I can't see the
left list as quite to do with the ticks, seems to be some independent
navigation? Frankly, it is not really obvious what this page is meant to
be conveying.

You certainly must have as part of the table all those things that are
relevant and that *includes the headings*. You have the headings in a
horizontal list and are doing some lining up acrobatics with the table!

Tables are designed to have headings. Use its gifts. Put Consultancy,
Bus Dev, etc in <tr><th>Consultancy</th><th>Bus
Dev</th><th>.....</th></tr> before the rows with the <td>s.

You can style the headings to appear white backgrounded.

You are fighting to get everything squeezed in. Too much juggling and
code. You will be disappointed unless you put the whole thing on a
better and sturdier scaffold.

Time to go back to basics though rather than be battering at this page.

<http://www.htmldog.com/>

But do come back when you have something simpler and validated as best
as you can.

--
dorayme
From: Beauregard T. Shagnasty on 16 Apr 2008 21:34
dorayme wrote:

> But do come back when you have something simpler and validated as best
> as you can.

...and after looking at the page with JavaScript disabled...

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
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