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From: paul on 6 May 2008 13:55
I'm with Mike on this. The AKGs in MS and I'd also do the oKtavas in
XY since your on headphones. This way you have three choices, either
stereo setup or a mix. Good luck.


On Tue, 06 May 2008 13:08:33 GMT, Mike Rivers <mrivers(a)d-and-d.com>
wrote:

>Federico wrote:
>
>> this weekend I will record an accordion 5tet. I've never done that before.
>
>You realize that you're opening the door to a flood of accordion jokes,
>don't you?
>
>> Probably I will mic the players right hands, just in case I need them but I
>> would like to record them all with a stereo technique.
>> I need some suggestion on which one would be better.
>
>> Place: small church (I haven't seen it yet) probably very reverberant.
>> Instruments: 5 accordions, seated and placed in semi circle. The first and
>> the last accordion are 2 meters apart (6 feet).
>
>That's going to put them pretty much knee-to-knee and you'd probably not
>get enough separation between the right hand of one accordion and the
>left hand of the next one to be useful. I'd stick with stereo pickup of
>the group and spend some time with mic placement to get a decent amount
>of room sound but not too much.
>
>> Mics pairs I can use:
>> AKG C414ULS
>> Oktava 012 /w the 3 capsules
>
>Those would probably be your best bets.
>
>> Since I will not have an accurate monitoring (I will use AKG K240
>> headphones) I'm willing to record 2 or 3 pairs (channels are not an issue, I
>> have 24 + 24 pres).
>
>This is really going to be your biggest problem since you'll only have
>an educated guess about you're getting. Can't you trade all of those
>channels and preamps for a couple of powered speakers and enough cable
>to get you into another room? They don't have to be great speakers, but
>should be better than "computer quality." You should be able to hear the
>balance between direct and reverberant sound that will let you decide
>how far back to put the mics.
>
>> My starting points are
>> 1) Coincident cardioids 90� placed in the focus of the circle of accordions
>> (Oktavas?) (or coincident supercardioids 180�???)
>> 2) M/S (or Blumlein) with the 414s (or jecklin disk?)
>> What would you do?
>
>I'd probably try the C414s or one C414 and an Oktava cardioid in M-S if
>the room sounds decent, or two Oktavas in X-Y if the room sounds crummy.
>But you have to listen for the room. The accordions will come through no
>matter what you do wrong. (not intended as an accordion joke, but not bad)
From: HKC on 6 May 2008 14:45
No matter what you do you will get a separation problem when they are that
close together so you have to get the balance right before recording. It may
also be a problem if the room doesn't sound good because them all distance
micing will carry the reverb as well and be more or less useless.
The accordion itself is a fairly easy instrument to record, it sounds like
an accordion not matter what you do (no pun intended). Most of your mics
could be dialed into an accordion setting but obviously the AKG C414ULS and
the Oktava 012 are the best for ambient mics.
Many accordion players have an internal mic that I sometimes record to get
some tracks with full separation.

PS of course if the players are really good you will most likely have no
problems at all.


From: Paul Stamler on 6 May 2008 15:12
"Federico" <8.8.8(a)tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:48201cb5$0$41653$4fafbaef(a)reader4.news.tin.it...
>
> Mics pairs I can use:
> AKG C414ULS
> Oktava 012 /w the 3 capsules
> AKG C391 cardioid (or supercardioid, I'm not sure)
> Crown PCC160 http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/101062.pdf
> Sennheiser MD421
> Beyerdynamic M201
> SM Pro Audio MC01
> http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=49
> M-Audio Pulsar http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/PulsarII-main.html
> (don't waste your money on these!!)
>
> Since I will not have an accurate monitoring (I will use AKG K240
> headphones) I'm willing to record 2 or 3 pairs (channels are not an issue,
I
> have 24 + 24 pres).
> 1) Coincident cardioids 90� placed in the focus of the circle of
accordions
> (Oktavas?) (or coincident supercardioids 180�???)
> 2) M/S (or Blumlein) with the 414s (or jecklin disk?)
> 3) Aproximation of Crown SASS using the PCC160s
> http://www.pugetsoundman.com/articles/stereo/binaural.htm
>
> What would you do?

I'd set up the Oktavas with the hypercardioid capsules, coincident at 90
degrees. I'd also run the 414s in XY, again hypercardioid at 90 degrees
(this breed of 414 has hyper, right?). And I'd put some thick carpet on the
floor for several feet around the microphone to soak up the floor bounce.

Peace,
Paul


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