Accordion quintet, which tech?
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From: John Williamson on 6 May 2008 08:37 Federico wrote: > P.S: no audience. > F. > > As well as a fairly close crossed pair at the focus, I'd use another pair pointing backwards, & mix in the room as required. That's what I did with the accordion band a while back. Also, remind the players not to move the bellows for a few seconds after the last notes, until the echoes have died away. -- Tciao for Now! John.
From: Mike Rivers on 6 May 2008 09:08 Federico wrote: > this weekend I will record an accordion 5tet. I've never done that before. You realize that you're opening the door to a flood of accordion jokes, don't you? > Probably I will mic the players right hands, just in case I need them but I > would like to record them all with a stereo technique. > I need some suggestion on which one would be better. > Place: small church (I haven't seen it yet) probably very reverberant. > Instruments: 5 accordions, seated and placed in semi circle. The first and > the last accordion are 2 meters apart (6 feet). That's going to put them pretty much knee-to-knee and you'd probably not get enough separation between the right hand of one accordion and the left hand of the next one to be useful. I'd stick with stereo pickup of the group and spend some time with mic placement to get a decent amount of room sound but not too much. > Mics pairs I can use: > AKG C414ULS > Oktava 012 /w the 3 capsules Those would probably be your best bets. > Since I will not have an accurate monitoring (I will use AKG K240 > headphones) I'm willing to record 2 or 3 pairs (channels are not an issue, I > have 24 + 24 pres). This is really going to be your biggest problem since you'll only have an educated guess about you're getting. Can't you trade all of those channels and preamps for a couple of powered speakers and enough cable to get you into another room? They don't have to be great speakers, but should be better than "computer quality." You should be able to hear the balance between direct and reverberant sound that will let you decide how far back to put the mics. > My starting points are > 1) Coincident cardioids 90� placed in the focus of the circle of accordions > (Oktavas?) (or coincident supercardioids 180�???) > 2) M/S (or Blumlein) with the 414s (or jecklin disk?) > What would you do? I'd probably try the C414s or one C414 and an Oktava cardioid in M-S if the room sounds decent, or two Oktavas in X-Y if the room sounds crummy. But you have to listen for the room. The accordions will come through no matter what you do wrong. (not intended as an accordion joke, but not bad) -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers (mriv...(a)d-and-d.com)
From: Laurence Payne on 6 May 2008 10:26 On Tue, 6 May 2008 14:24:33 +0200, "Federico" <8.8.8(a)tiscali.it> wrote: > >> No chance of moving to a better room I suppose? > >Nope, I'm not producing this recording. >But the accordion can be a loud instrument so I hope the reverb not to be a >big issue... Same difference, loud or soft.
From: Federico on 7 May 2008 02:19 As spot mics I will rely on dinamic mics. Beyerdynamics M201 (which I love) and 421s should work. As Mike wrote the players are sitting very near. I hope this don't become a problem. So, the main mics will probably be 1) Oktavas in XY from 90� to 120� in the focus (I'm not sure if cardioid or Hyper) 2) 414s in MS (M omni?) maybe 3 feet before the focus Shall I bring in a thick carpet and try the Crowns on the floor in the foucs aiming 180�? Or I could use them "AB" 6 feet from each other using the "M" 414 mic as "centre"? F. <ganttmann(a)comcast.net> ha scritto nel messaggio news:96b14ab3-0864-4963-ba1a-5648088e491d(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... MIke's M-S idea was my first thought. You might want to try M-S with a 414 in omni for the mid mic. You'll get wider coverage and some room, which would hopefully be a good thing. If you want to spot mic I wouldn't worry about stereo on each accordion. One mic in the center would be my first choice. I might aim more for the right hand side of whoever the main soloist is. Gantt On May 6, 9:08 am, Mike Rivers <mriv...(a)d-and-d.com> wrote: > Federico wrote: > > this weekend I will record an accordion 5tet. I've never done that > > before. > > You realize that you're opening the door to a flood of accordion jokes, > don't you? > > > Probably I will mic the players right hands, just in case I need them > > but I > > would like to record them all with a stereo technique. > > I need some suggestion on which one would be better. > > Place: small church (I haven't seen it yet) probably very reverberant. > > Instruments: 5 accordions, seated and placed in semi circle. The first > > and > > the last accordion are 2 meters apart (6 feet). > > That's going to put them pretty much knee-to-knee and you'd probably not > get enough separation between the right hand of one accordion and the > left hand of the next one to be useful. I'd stick with stereo pickup of > the group and spend some time with mic placement to get a decent amount > of room sound but not too much. > > > Mics pairs I can use: > > AKG C414ULS > > Oktava 012 /w the 3 capsules > > Those would probably be your best bets. > > > Since I will not have an accurate monitoring (I will use AKG K240 > > headphones) I'm willing to record 2 or 3 pairs (channels are not an > > issue, I > > have 24 + 24 pres). > > This is really going to be your biggest problem since you'll only have > an educated guess about you're getting. Can't you trade all of those > channels and preamps for a couple of powered speakers and enough cable > to get you into another room? They don't have to be great speakers, but > should be better than "computer quality." You should be able to hear the > balance between direct and reverberant sound that will let you decide > how far back to put the mics. > > > My starting points are > > 1) Coincident cardioids 90� placed in the focus of the circle of > > accordions > > (Oktavas?) (or coincident supercardioids 180�???) > > 2) M/S (or Blumlein) with the 414s (or jecklin disk?) > > What would you do? > > I'd probably try the C414s or one C414 and an Oktava cardioid in M-S if > the room sounds decent, or two Oktavas in X-Y if the room sounds crummy. > But you have to listen for the room. The accordions will come through no > matter what you do wrong. (not intended as an accordion joke, but not bad) > > -- > If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach > me here: > double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers > (mriv...(a)d-and-d.com)
From: Paul Stamler on 7 May 2008 03:07
"Federico" <8.8.8(a)tiscali.it> wrote in message news:482149de$0$35960$4fafbaef(a)reader2.news.tin.it... > As spot mics I will rely on dinamic mics. > Beyerdynamics M201 (which I love) and 421s should work. > As Mike wrote the players are sitting very near. I hope this don't become a > problem. I suspect it may, since there'll be lots of leakage. > So, the main mics will probably be > 1) Oktavas in XY from 90� to 120� in the focus (I'm not sure if cardioid or > Hyper) The thing is, Oktava's "cardioid" capsules are actually closer to "wide cardioid", while their "hypercardioid" capsules are closer to "cardioid", and have a flatter response besides. Do use carpet, though, between the accordions and main mics. Peace, Paul |