Are we close to a Lisp boom ?
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From: Ken Tilton on 4 May 2008 09:43 globalrev wrote: > On 4 Maj, 06:24, vanekl <va...(a)acd.net> wrote: > >>Ken Tilton wrote: >> >> >>>vanekl wrote: >>> >>>>Spiros Bousbouras wrote: >> >>>>>If it's true that as we progress in time, successive >>>>>fashionable languages resemble Lisp more and >>>>>more then Lisp's turn should come at some point. >> >>>>>Do you agree with this argument ? If yes, would >>>>>you say we're close to a Lisp boom ? >> >>>>IMO, not until CL goes through another standardization process, >>>>not for the language this time, but for a few libraries: >>>>comm, stream, unicode, thread. >> >>>Yeah, the damn thing is unusable as it is. >> >>unusable? needlessly inconvenient would be a better choice of words, >>methinks. Python has its advantages; ignoring them is... never mind. >> >> >> >> >>>>Too bad there isn't a benevolent angel that could fund such >>>>an expenditure <hint>PG</hint>. >> >>>Nah, he went broke trying to do a start-up with CL, a Web store I think. >> >>Time to put the cork back in the bottle. The bar is closed. Make sure >>you tip your waitress on the way out. Thank you and drive safely. >> >> >>>kt > > > dont know if u misunderstood or not but he is referring to Paul Graham > that > started Viaweb in 1995 which was sold to Yahoo for around 50million > dollars in 1998. > Graham is now working on Arc, a Lisp-dialect. He understood, he just could not handle having pointed out to him the delightful irony of asking for money to help make Lisp usable from someone who got rich USING Lisp thirteen years ago. But what should we expect from someone who says "You've had too much to drink, drive safely."? :) kenny -- http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/ http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/ ECLM rant: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1331906677993764413&hl=en ECLM talk: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9173722505157942928&q=&hl=en
From: Majorinc Kazimir on 4 May 2008 09:44 I do not think so. Lisp is significantly harder to learn than, say, Ruby or Lua, and it provides less advantages to average programmer than ever.
From: Robert Uhl on 6 May 2008 19:03 Edi Weitz <spamtrap(a)agharta.de> writes: > >> With standard C plus standard POSIX, you're pretty much certain that >> your app will run anywhere important. > > How many useful and/or successful Windows apps have been written in > pure standard C plus standard POSIX? Well, cygwin has a lot:-) Note that I wrote 'anywhere important.' Microsoft Windows is to computing as the Ottoman Empire was to late nineteenth century politics: it covers a lot of territory, but no-one takes it seriously anymore. -- Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl> Death Before Dishonour Beer Before Lunch
From: Pascal J. Bourguignon on 6 May 2008 12:53 Robert Uhl <eadmund42(a)NOSPAMgmail.com> writes: > Edi Weitz <spamtrap(a)agharta.de> writes: >> >>> I'm no longer writing CL, I'm writing a dialect of CL that is >>> dependent on the success or otherwise of my vender. >> >> How is that different from C/C++? > > With standard C plus standard POSIX, you're pretty much certain that > your app will run anywhere important. You're not certain that it'll run > fast or particularly well, and of course there are those edge cases that > need to be taken care of--but my perception is that C+POSIX is much more > reliable a platform than Common Lisp. In a world of closed source, proprietary OS like we had 20 years ago, yes. In a world of free software, easily downloadable from the Net, and installable on any machine, not anymore, C+POSIX is not more reliable a platform than Common Lisp or anything else. For example, IIRC, MacOSX 10.5 is delivered to the users with ruby, without gcc. It's not harder to download darwin ports, and type port install sbcl to get a CL platform than it is to type port install gcc to get a C+POSIX one. I don't have the impression that MS-Windows is delivered to the users with a C compiler either... Download for download, you can as well download sbcl or clisp to make your MS-Windows box a programmable computer. > It's also much more low-level and much more prone to segfaults and > security holes. At the moment I'd rather program in non-portable CL > than in portable C, but that's me. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__
From: vanekl on 4 May 2008 11:04
Ken Tilton wrote: > > > globalrev wrote: >> On 4 Maj, 06:24, vanekl <va...(a)acd.net> wrote: >> >>> Ken Tilton wrote: >>> >>> >>>> vanekl wrote: >>>> >>>>> Spiros Bousbouras wrote: >>> >>>>>> If it's true that as we progress in time, successive >>>>>> fashionable languages resemble Lisp more and >>>>>> more then Lisp's turn should come at some point. >>> >>>>>> Do you agree with this argument ? If yes, would >>>>>> you say we're close to a Lisp boom ? >>> >>>>> IMO, not until CL goes through another standardization process, >>>>> not for the language this time, but for a few libraries: >>>>> comm, stream, unicode, thread. >>> >>>> Yeah, the damn thing is unusable as it is. >>> >>> unusable? needlessly inconvenient would be a better choice of words, >>> methinks. Python has its advantages; ignoring them is... never mind. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> Too bad there isn't a benevolent angel that could fund such >>>>> an expenditure <hint>PG</hint>. >>> >>>> Nah, he went broke trying to do a start-up with CL, a Web store I >>>> think. >>> >>> Time to put the cork back in the bottle. The bar is closed. Make sure >>> you tip your waitress on the way out. Thank you and drive safely. >>> >>> >>>> kt >> >> >> dont know if u misunderstood or not but he is referring to Paul Graham >> that >> started Viaweb in 1995 which was sold to Yahoo for around 50million >> dollars in 1998. >> Graham is now working on Arc, a Lisp-dialect. > > He understood, he just could not handle having pointed out to him the > delightful irony of asking for money to help make Lisp usable from > someone who got rich USING Lisp thirteen years ago. > > But what should we expect from someone who says "You've had too much to > drink, drive safely."? > > :) > > kenny Gawd, next time I'll wink and add 10 smiley faces so the slower members of the group can catch up. |