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From: nomail on 9 Jun 2010 00:21
On 06/08/2010 08:19 PM, noi ance wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:21:44 -0400, nomail typed this message:
>
>> #....4/
>
>> title OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>> root
>> title Config 3 PATA drives plugged-in
>> root
>> title . 3 or more SATA drives plugged-in
>> root
>> title . installation is on the 3rd lowest drive in the SATA stack
>> root
>> title OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>> root
.....
>> title Generic Standard on SATA-3 bios: hd5,13 [/dev/sdc14]
>> partition-14
>> root (hd5,13)
>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdc14
>> initrd /boot/initrd
>> title Generic Standard on SATA-3 bios: hd5,14 [/dev/sdc15]
>> partition-15
>> root (hd5,14)
>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdc15
>> initrd /boot/initrd

> Out of all you posted I think this is the one you should be using to boot
> off your /dev/sdc1 (the 2TB boot which isn't in SATA1 connection but is
> in SATA3 connection).

No, this one is for 3 or more sata and exactly 3 pata drives. I have no
more PATA at all, even removed the DVD burner and disabled everything PATA.

> Also as I wrote earlier. as soon as you add mount points and the correct
> entries into your various /etc/fstab(s) the other SATA drives should
> mount normally.

I don't want anything to automount ever except the booted root
partition. I just had to repeat a 40 minute mirroring job because of
this. Only near the end did I notice that the bloody system had
automounted the source partition (dd requires source & target unmounted
throughout).

Nor do I want to boot any partition except some on the disk connected to
sata-1. But I do want up to all other sata connectors occupied with
other disks and partitions to mount manually when I want them if I want
them. That's what this motherboard doesn't seem to be giving me for some
reason. When sdd1 ends up booting it's not because it's the one I wanted
booted, that would be easy to do, it's sda(whatever) that I want to boot
with all sata ports occupied.



From: J.O. Aho on 9 Jun 2010 00:44
nomail@_INVALID_no.org wrote:
> On 06/08/2010 08:19 PM, noi ance wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:21:44 -0400, nomail typed this message:
>>
>>> #....4/
>>
>>> title OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>> root
>>> title Config 3 PATA drives plugged-in
>>> root
>>> title . 3 or more SATA drives plugged-in
>>> root
>>> title . installation is on the 3rd lowest drive in the SATA stack
>>> root
>>> title OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>> root
> ....
>>> title Generic Standard on SATA-3 bios: hd5,13 [/dev/sdc14]
>>> partition-14
>>> root (hd5,13)
>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdc14
>>> initrd /boot/initrd
>>> title Generic Standard on SATA-3 bios: hd5,14 [/dev/sdc15]
>>> partition-15
>>> root (hd5,14)
>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdc15
>>> initrd /boot/initrd
>
>> Out of all you posted I think this is the one you should be using to boot
>> off your /dev/sdc1 (the 2TB boot which isn't in SATA1 connection but is
>> in SATA3 connection).
>
> No, this one is for 3 or more sata and exactly 3 pata drives. I have no
> more PATA at all, even removed the DVD burner and disabled everything PATA.
>
>> Also as I wrote earlier. as soon as you add mount points and the correct
>> entries into your various /etc/fstab(s) the other SATA drives should
>> mount normally.
>
> I don't want anything to automount ever except the booted root
> partition. I just had to repeat a 40 minute mirroring job because of
> this. Only near the end did I notice that the bloody system had
> automounted the source partition (dd requires source & target unmounted
> throughout).



> Nor do I want to boot any partition except some on the disk connected to
> sata-1. But I do want up to all other sata connectors occupied with
> other disks and partitions to mount manually when I want them if I want
> them. That's what this motherboard doesn't seem to be giving me for some
> reason. When sdd1 ends up booting it's not because it's the one I wanted
> booted, that would be easy to do, it's sda(whatever) that I want to boot
> with all sata ports occupied.

Add the noauto to the fstab option section and it will not automount.
Your problem is that your "hotswap" disks are pushed into sata connectors
which are sata-1/sata-4 connector, which then makes those that you want to
boot from to change to another device.

From your dmesg log (boot with two sata devices):
<6>ata2.00: ATA-8: WDC WD20EARS-00S8B1, 80.00A80, max UDMA/133
<6>ata2.00: 3907029168 sectors, multi 1: LBA48 NCQ (depth 0/32)
<6>ata3: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
<6>ata3.00: ATA-7: WDC WD3200AAKS-22SBA0, 12.01B01, max UDMA/133

If your "sda" is the Western Digital WD20EARS-00S8B1, when you place something
in your sata-1, it will suddenly be "sdb".

Please take a good look at your motherboards manual so see which connector is
which, as your problem is there, place the one drive you want to be sda in
sata-1, the one you want to have as sdb in sata-2, the two hotswap you connect
to sata-3 and sata-4.

If you want to be stubborn and not change the disk location, then lable each
partition and use the lable in your grub and /etc/fstab.

--

//Aho
From: nomail on 9 Jun 2010 17:47
On 06/09/2010 12:44 AM, J.O. Aho wrote:

> Add the noauto to the fstab option section and it will not automount.

I sure will, didn't know it was default now.

> Your problem is that your "hotswap" disks are pushed into sata connectors
> which are sata-1/sata-4 connector, which then makes those that you want to
> boot from to change to another device.

My problem is that there's probably something I don't understand about
the use of these 4 sata connectors. I neither need nor have (enabled)
raid or hotswap and I presume that this makes them just four connectors
for up to 4 sata drives with no constraints or restrictions except that
the drives must be stata's :-)

> From your dmesg log (boot with two sata devices):
> <6>ata2.00: ATA-8: WDC WD20EARS-00S8B1, 80.00A80, max UDMA/133
> <6>ata2.00: 3907029168 sectors, multi 1: LBA48 NCQ (depth 0/32)
> <6>ata3: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
> <6>ata3.00: ATA-7: WDC WD3200AAKS-22SBA0, 12.01B01, max UDMA/133
>
> If your "sda" is the Western Digital WD20EARS-00S8B1, when you place something
> in your sata-1, it will suddenly be "sdb".
>
> Please take a good look at your motherboards manual so see which connector is
> which, as your problem is there, place the one drive you want to be sda in
> sata-1, the one you want to have as sdb in sata-2, the two hotswap you connect
> to sata-3 and sata-4.

It says next to nothing but does mention raid which MAY be enabled in
BIOS. In mine it isn't.

> If you want to be stubborn and not change the disk location, then lable each
> partition and use the lable in your grub and /etc/fstab.

I'm not trying to be stuborn :-) & I do appreciate the comments.

Either I misunderstand something, the board is broke, or there's a
problem with a disk or with what's on the disk.

I best take it from the top.

Let's say I take a hard drive, partition it, then I install or copy a
bunch of Operating Systems and data to to it. Here's the case of the
discussed new 2tb drive:

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 2611 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 * 2612 5223 20980890 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda3 5224 7835 20980890 1c Hidden W95 FAT32
/dev/sda4 7836 243201 1890577395 5 Ext
/dev/sda5 7836 8097 2104483+ 82 Linux swap
/dev/sda6 8098 10708 20972826 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda7 10709 13319 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda8 13320 15930 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda9 15931 18541 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda10 18542 21152 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda11 21153 23763 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda12 23764 26374 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda13 26375 28985 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/sda14 28986 237980 1678752306 83 Linux
/dev/sda15 237981 243201 41937651 83 Linux


Partition 6 is a vfat shared data partition and I place a /boot folder
there and this file /boot/user/menu.boo


# Grub-0.9x menu file: Disks AND partitions begin with 0 !!
# Grub2 disks will begin with 1.
color white/blue yellow/black
#color yellow/black white/green
#color white/green yellow/black
#color cyan/blue white/blue
default 0 # default is first entry (starts with 0)
timeout 1200 # autoboot in ... seconds

title disk 2tb-A file: /boot/user/menu.boo
root
title all linux systems: visitor login & password "visit", enter
"startx"
root
title Suse-11.2 OP reiser sda1
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda1 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
title Windows-7 fat32lba sda2
hide (hd0,1)
hide (hd0,2)
unhide (hd0,1)
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1
title Windows-XP fat32lba sda3
hide (hd0,1)
hide (hd0,2)
unhide (hd0,2)
rootnoverify (hd0,2)
makeactive
chainloader +1
title Suse-103 OP reiser sda7
root (hd0,6)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
title Suse-111 & NEXT reiser sda8
root (hd0,7)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda8 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
title Debian-5 Gnome OP reiser sda9
root (hd0,8)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda9 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
#####################################################################
title Suse-112 STERILE DISCONNECT!! reiser sda10
root (hd0,9)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda10 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
title Suse-103 STERILE DISCONNECT!! reiser sda11
root (hd0,10)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda11 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
title Suse-111 STERILE DISCONNECT!! reiser sda12
root (hd0,11)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda12 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd
title Debian-5 STERILE DISCONNECT!! reiser sda13
root (hd0,12)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda13 vga=0x31a splash=0 3
initrd /boot/initrd


Finaly when all is good I launch grub from command line and do

#g root (hd0,0)
#g install /boot/grub/stage1 (hd0) /boot/grub/stage2 p
(hd0,5)/boot/user/menu.boo

Which gets grub to write boot code to the root sector of what it then
sees as hd0. I could also just park a copy of stage1/stage2 right where
my menu file is and then do

#g root (hd0,5)
#g install /boot/user/stage1 (hd0) /boot/user/stage2 p /boot/user/menu.boo


From this point on this disk is bootable, I can place it into the sata-1
mobile tray and boot it any time.

Next I repeat the process and end up with 4 disks that could even be
identical in every way. They seldom are exactly identical but this could
happen. Except for all-data disks the layout is typically very similar,
all are individually bootable, all have swap and data partitions exactly
under the same #, and all end with a main #14 data partition and a last
smaller one as #15.

Here comes the problem: I place one of these drives in every one of the
4 sata mobile trays, the one in the #1 tray being set as the one to boot
in BIOS. The drives stay locked for the session, I do neither raid nor
hot sawpping. The others (2 to 4) are used for their data partitions or
for interventions in any OS partition. I've been doing this for close to
20 years with PATA drives and lateley with some PATA/SATA but never with
more than 2 SATA.

Now all hell breaks loose, the subject of the OP. What am I missing?
Using other than disk by device-name (/dev/sdX) is not practical for me.
If I cannot use the sata 3/4 ports then fine, I'll just use usb
connected trays instead. For now I just need to know if what I'm trying
to do is simply impossible, if so why, or if there's a hangup of some
sort. It's beginning to sound like these 3 & 4 connectors are hot-swap
only REGARDLESS of whether or not raid is enabled. (?)

I retried the boot with only 1 & 2 drives plugged in and then plugging
in the last 2 once booted. This worked, I guess it's what they call hot
swapping which is not what I want. The last 2 drives are detected as sdg
& sdh for some reason.





From: nomail on 9 Jun 2010 17:48
On 06/09/2010 01:26 PM, noi ance wrote:

> Doesn't matter whether you have 3 PATA or not. The above is telling your
> system which SATA device you want as your boot drive.

On my machine any PATA drive comes first, so sda will always be the
first sata but hd0 will only mean the first sata if there is no pata
connected.

> Try this:
> Disconnect all your SATA drives (power and cables).
> You could now also re-align your hard drives top (1) to bottom (4) in
> your case.

Done. They're actually horizontal now, up to 5 disks in the space of 3
bays. I just bought this raid rack to replace all my big mobile trays.
The connections have been flawless all the time. I even connected the
disks without the rack to make sure it wasn't crosswired inside.
Everything is straight, BIOS initially detects all 4 sata drives as
plugged in and in the correct sequence.


> Verify layout of your SATA connectors (1-4) with your system manual. It
> looks like your M/B starts SATA1 bottom right to SATA2 bottom left, SATA3
> top right and SATA4 top left.

Correct.

sata4 sata3
sata2 sata1

> Connect only the SATA drive you want to make your boot drive to your M/B
> SATA1 connector. This is booting only the one drive but you should see
> /dev/sda connected to SATA1, ie, bios matches software (/etc/fstab to
> list and match /dev/sda1 thru /dev/sda12, etc). Boot to test and verify.

Done, many times, like the one on top. Everything is cool. I also
suspected fstab at first, verified good (btw. a bad fstab would misfire
regardless of the number of drives connected).

> Then add your second SATA drive connected to SATA2 connector on the M/B,
> add mount points and modify /etc/fstab to mount (auto or noauto) /dev/
> sdb1 thru sdb12 or whatever. Reboot to test and verify.

No probl;em. I always manually mount, have about 50 scripts that fall
off the panel in a menu ladder to mount unmount exactly what I want when
I want :-)

> Do the same for 3rd and 4th SATA drives.
>
> That way everything should be correct, since you're not using LVM or RAID.

Wish you were right :-)


Does anyone out there have 4 sata drives continuously connected
throughout a session without raid or anything?







From: J.O. Aho on 10 Jun 2010 01:33
nomail@_INVALID_no.org wrote:
> On 06/09/2010 12:44 AM, J.O. Aho wrote:
>
>> Add the noauto to the fstab option section and it will not automount.
>
> I sure will, didn't know it was default now.

I suggest you do a "man 8 mount", it's more or less the same man page I read
back in 1997 (nowadays with a few more file systems).


>> Your problem is that your "hotswap" disks are pushed into sata connectors
>> which are sata-1/sata-4 connector, which then makes those that you want to
>> boot from to change to another device.
>
> My problem is that there's probably something I don't understand about
> the use of these 4 sata connectors.

Yes, we have noticed. You have 4 sata ports, port 1 to 4, where you put your
boot disk in port 2, when you attach something to port 1, then hard drive in
port 2 will change to a new "device" (from sda to sdb).


> I neither need nor have (enabled)
> raid or hotswap and I presume that this makes them just four connectors
> for up to 4 sata drives with no constraints or restrictions except that
> the drives must be stata's :-)

No, it will not affect anything, I used the "hotswap" as you
connect/disconnect some of your hard drives (usually when you do that you tend
to have those as hot swap). One of those hard drives you plug-in into the sata
port 1, which makes that hard drive to become sda.


>> From your dmesg log (boot with two sata devices):
>> <6>ata2.00: ATA-8: WDC WD20EARS-00S8B1, 80.00A80, max UDMA/133
>> <6>ata2.00: 3907029168 sectors, multi 1: LBA48 NCQ (depth 0/32)
>> <6>ata3: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
>> <6>ata3.00: ATA-7: WDC WD3200AAKS-22SBA0, 12.01B01, max UDMA/133
>>
>> If your "sda" is the Western Digital WD20EARS-00S8B1, when you place something
>> in your sata-1, it will suddenly be "sdb".
>>
>> Please take a good look at your motherboards manual so see which connector is
>> which, as your problem is there, place the one drive you want to be sda in
>> sata-1, the one you want to have as sdb in sata-2, the two hotswap you connect
>> to sata-3 and sata-4.
>
> It says next to nothing but does mention raid which MAY be enabled in
> BIOS. In mine it isn't.

Raid has nothing to do with this, you just plug your hard drive in the wrong
sata-ports, which makes that hard drives change their "device".


>> If you want to be stubborn and not change the disk location, then lable each
>> partition and use the lable in your grub and /etc/fstab.
>
> I'm not trying to be stuborn :-) & I do appreciate the comments.
>
> Either I misunderstand something, the board is broke, or there's a
> problem with a disk or with what's on the disk.

The board isn't broken, it's you plugin in your main hard drive into sata port
2 and when you plug in another hard drive in sata port 1, your boot hard drive
change "device".


> I best take it from the top.
>
> Let's say I take a hard drive, partition it, then I install or copy a
> bunch of Operating Systems and data to to it. Here's the case of the
> discussed new 2tb drive:
>
> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> /dev/sda1 1 2611 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda2 * 2612 5223 20980890 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
> /dev/sda3 5224 7835 20980890 1c Hidden W95 FAT32
> /dev/sda4 7836 243201 1890577395 5 Ext
> /dev/sda5 7836 8097 2104483+ 82 Linux swap
> /dev/sda6 8098 10708 20972826 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
> /dev/sda7 10709 13319 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda8 13320 15930 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda9 15931 18541 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda10 18542 21152 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda11 21153 23763 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda12 23764 26374 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda13 26375 28985 20972826 83 Linux
> /dev/sda14 28986 237980 1678752306 83 Linux
> /dev/sda15 237981 243201 41937651 83 Linux
>

This drive will be /dev/sda until you plug in a hard drive into your sata port
1, then it will be /dev/sdb.



> Which gets grub to write boot code to the root sector of what it then
> sees as hd0. I could also just park a copy of stage1/stage2 right where
> my menu file is and then do

How does your /boot/grub/device.map look like?
That one determines which drive will be hd0, if you have assigned names to
your pata devices, then they won't become hd0.


> From this point on this disk is bootable, I can place it into the sata-1
> mobile tray and boot it any time.

Except that your are using sata port 2!!!

> Next I repeat the process and end up with 4 disks that could even be
> identical in every way. They seldom are exactly identical but this could
> happen. Except for all-data disks the layout is typically very similar,
> all are individually bootable, all have swap and data partitions exactly
> under the same #, and all end with a main #14 data partition and a last
> smaller one as #15.
>
> Here comes the problem: I place one of these drives in every one of the
> 4 sata mobile trays, the one in the #1 tray being set as the one to boot
> in BIOS. The drives stay locked for the session, I do neither raid nor
> hot sawpping. The others (2 to 4) are used for their data partitions or
> for interventions in any OS partition. I've been doing this for close to
> 20 years with PATA drives and lateley with some PATA/SATA but never with
> more than 2 SATA.

SATA works like PATA, lets make this like this

SATA port 1 = PATA Primary Master
SATA port 2 = PATA Primary Slave
SATA port 3 = PATA Secondary Master
SATA port 4 = PATA Secondary Slave

Assume you have two PATA hard drives, you have by default the following
plugged into your computer:

PATA Primary Slave (this will be hda)
PATA Secondary Slave (this will be hdb)

Then you plug in a new hard drive

PATA Primary Master

What will happen?

PATA Primary Master will become hda
PATA Primary Slave will become hdb (your boot disk)
PATA Secondary Slave will become hdc

I'm quite sure you will not argue against that and that is what happens with
your SATA.



> Now all hell breaks loose, the subject of the OP. What am I missing?
> Using other than disk by device-name (/dev/sdX) is not practical for me.
> If I cannot use the sata 3/4 ports then fine

No, it's not port 3/4, it's port 1 and 4, note that the first of those ports
are port number 1. Your boot disk is connected to port 2, see the dmesg:

>> <6>ata2.00: ATA-8: WDC WD20EARS-00S8B1, 80.00A80, max UDMA/133
>> <6>ata2.00: 3907029168 sectors, multi 1: LBA48 NCQ (depth 0/32)



--

//Aho
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