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From: Stephen Hansen on 23 Jun 2010 01:18
On 6/22/10 9:48 PM, John Bokma wrote:
> alex23 <wuwei23(a)gmail.com> writes:
>> Given the current propensity for people to scrape web sites like
>> Wikipedia and publish them on Amazon without the rights holders'
>> consent,
>
> Can you explain were exactly it states that you can't print a book out
> of wikipedia articles?:
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use

There's a difference between what is legal, and what is ethical. There
are many, many people who re-use Wikipedia content in ethical ways and
some even make money off of it. That's fine.

Its when you package it up in such a way that the buyer doesn't realize
what they're buying, that's where the problem comes-- and that's what is
happening quite a lot these days.

>> my initial impression was exactly the same as Stephen's. I
>> don't think there's anything contractually binding about the product
>> description that would guarantee the PSF even see any returns at all.
>> But hey, as long as the page _looks_ and _sounds_ official, it must
>> be, right?
>
> And if it looks like a scam, it must be, right?

If it looks like a scam, some due-diligence and concern is appropriate.
Especially when asked by someone like the OP who is not you, is not
sophisticated in their knowledge of the community and the resources
available to it.

If it looks like a scam, take care personally. If it looks like a scam
and someone is asking about it, you don't sit by and say nothing. That's
inhuman.

--

Stephen Hansen
... Also: Ixokai
... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/

From: Stephen Hansen on 23 Jun 2010 01:11
On 6/22/10 9:45 PM, John Bokma wrote:
> Stephen Hansen <me+list/python(a)ixokai.io> writes:
>
>> I *have* seen people burned by confusion over situations *extremely*
>> similar to this;
>
> But is it? You didn't even ask yourself that question.

Yes. I did.

I don't really make a point of publishing internal dialog on mailing
lists for you to determine though, so I can see the confusion.

>> If being concerned about fellow Python-folks possibly getting ripped off
>> makes me an asshat, so be it. Go y'know-what yourself.
>
> If this publisher is legimate you might very well be denying
> people -- like I said I am interested -- from getting a print-out in the
> future just because /you/ cried wolf and called them scammers.

Uh, yeah. Okay.

The level of utter absurdity in that statement is off the charts.

I am not off starting some great interweb campaign to bring them down.
I'm not logging into Amazon and down-rating all the books and giving
them scathing reviews. I haven't notified any agencies (from Amazon, to
the PSF) who may be interested in the scam (if it is a scam) to try to
get action done. I haven't even considered registering
sohobooksisascam.com to try to get the word out. Not that having an
anti-website is any good when there's no website to go all anti against,
but whatever.

On a mailing list, a guy with no real influence or and absolutely no
importance, questioned the validity of the publisher and the legitimacy
and ethical behavior they're doing.

If they can't stand up to one question-- they aren't legitimate.

I "deny" nothing to anyone by raising a concern. If the concern is
unfounded, great. If it isn't, then some people will be saved some grief.

--

Stephen Hansen
... Also: Ixokai
... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/

From: John Bokma on 23 Jun 2010 13:22
Stephen Hansen <me+list/python(a)ixokai.io> writes:

> On 6/22/10 9:48 PM, John Bokma wrote:

[..]

> Its when you package it up in such a way that the buyer doesn't realize
> what they're buying, that's where the problem comes-- and that's what is
> happening quite a lot these days.

Which is not the case here.

> If it looks like a scam, take care personally. If it looks like a scam
> and someone is asking about it, you don't sit by and say nothing. That's
> inhuman.

Yelling scam because you have a gut feeling is probably human, but I
wouldn't call it ethical.

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
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