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From: Gordon on 22 Apr 2008 13:51
"kh" <kh(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:EF76B129-7CB4-4C14-9B33-E49AD50E613B(a)microsoft.com...
>I find it fascianting that so often the response given by MVPs and Ribbon
> advocates is that people who dislike the Ribbon are backward, inflexible,
> or
> stupid.
>
> The fact is, power users who customized their toolbars in Office XP for
> maximize their efficiency have been screwed over in Office 2007 because
> CUSTOMIZATION has been severely limited with the Ribbons. The Quick Access
> bar does allow frequently used items to surface, but it doesn't let you
> customize to the same extent that the Office XP toolbars did.
>
> Newbies or people who weren't power users of Office XP will find the
> Ribbon
> helpful, undoubtedly. But the lowest common denominator is not the best
> approach to software development: properly developed software should work
> as
> well for newbies as it does for power users. The Ribbon fails utterly in
> this
> regard.
>
> Power Users, who are not stupid, inflexible, or backward--but who are
> proactive people who have the intelligence and desire to customize--have
> been
> given fewer customization options in Office 2007. Period. And that is
> insulting.
>

Umm. I'm an ADVANCED Excel user (there's no such term as POWER user in my
lexicography), have been since Excel 2000 - NEVER needed to "customise" any
of my toolbars, and have NEVER understood this desire to do so. I find Excel
2007 perfectly usable as it is, along with Word and Outlook.
I am starting to get the impression that the "customisers" who winge about
this are those who are too lazy to discover where their commonly-used
functions exist in the standard layout....

From: Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook] on 22 Apr 2008 23:06
And, get ready for even more Ribbons in Office 14.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Gordon asked:

| "kh" <kh(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| news:EF76B129-7CB4-4C14-9B33-E49AD50E613B(a)microsoft.com...
|| I find it fascianting that so often the response given by MVPs and
|| Ribbon advocates is that people who dislike the Ribbon are backward,
|| inflexible, or
|| stupid.
||
|| The fact is, power users who customized their toolbars in Office XP
|| for maximize their efficiency have been screwed over in Office 2007
|| because CUSTOMIZATION has been severely limited with the Ribbons.
|| The Quick Access bar does allow frequently used items to surface,
|| but it doesn't let you customize to the same extent that the Office
|| XP toolbars did.
||
|| Newbies or people who weren't power users of Office XP will find the
|| Ribbon
|| helpful, undoubtedly. But the lowest common denominator is not the
|| best approach to software development: properly developed software
|| should work as
|| well for newbies as it does for power users. The Ribbon fails
|| utterly in this
|| regard.
||
|| Power Users, who are not stupid, inflexible, or backward--but who are
|| proactive people who have the intelligence and desire to
|| customize--have been
|| given fewer customization options in Office 2007. Period. And that is
|| insulting.
||
|
| Umm. I'm an ADVANCED Excel user (there's no such term as POWER user
| in my lexicography), have been since Excel 2000 - NEVER needed to
| "customise" any of my toolbars, and have NEVER understood this desire
| to do so. I find Excel 2007 perfectly usable as it is, along with
| Word and Outlook.
| I am starting to get the impression that the "customisers" who winge
| about this are those who are too lazy to discover where their
| commonly-used functions exist in the standard layout....
From: Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook] on 22 Apr 2008 23:11
I have never used any of those terms to describe people who dislike the ribbon. Must be a product of your subconscious, it is certainly not from mine.

I have consistently pointed people to Jensen Harris' blog for a deeper understanding of the rationale behind the Ribbon and how utterly difficult it is to keep adding commands to menu items that have their own menu items, that produce even more menu items.

What I do find inflexible is the opinion that Microsoft should take a step backwards to satisfy the few who find the Ribbon non-intuitive or difficult to manage. For those people, why not stick with what works (Office 2003 or prior) rather than demand that Microsoft bend to your will and produce a retrograde product.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, kh asked:

| I find it fascianting that so often the response given by MVPs and
| Ribbon advocates is that people who dislike the Ribbon are backward,
| inflexible, or stupid.
|
| The fact is, power users who customized their toolbars in Office XP
| for maximize their efficiency have been screwed over in Office 2007
| because CUSTOMIZATION has been severely limited with the Ribbons. The
| Quick Access bar does allow frequently used items to surface, but it
| doesn't let you customize to the same extent that the Office XP
| toolbars did.
|
| Newbies or people who weren't power users of Office XP will find the
| Ribbon helpful, undoubtedly. But the lowest common denominator is not
| the best approach to software development: properly developed
| software should work as well for newbies as it does for power users.
| The Ribbon fails utterly in this regard.
|
| Power Users, who are not stupid, inflexible, or backward--but who are
| proactive people who have the intelligence and desire to
| customize--have been given fewer customization options in Office
| 2007. Period. And that is insulting.
|
| "Gordon" wrote:
|
|| "Bring back Classic Menus"
|| <BringbackClassicMenus(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
|| news:F22FB257-BBB8-449D-8E3E-3E85ABB8DCA6(a)microsoft.com...
|||
||| Simple. There is demand for a classic mode as is illustrated by
||| the third party add-ons as anyone with half a brain can see.
|||
||
|| Umm no. There is a "demand" by SOME people - generally those whose
|| brain can't cope with anything different to the way it's always been
|| done.
|| Like you for example.
From: weewillie on 23 Apr 2008 17:52
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:11:21 -0700, "Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"
<What(a)ever> wrote:

>What I do find inflexible is the opinion that Microsoft should take a step backwards to satisfy the few who find the Ribbon non-intuitive or difficult to manage. For those people, why not stick with what works (Office 2003 or prior) rather than demand that Microsoft bend to your will and produce a retrograde product.

I think the key here is corporates

I run a small business and for me the requirement to re-train to use,
what would normally be labelled as 'common or garden office software'
is an enormous addittional workload, coupled with the uncertainty it
brings, with suddenly finding you don't know how to do ordinary tasks
that used to be second nature.

I've been the finance and IT director of several companies here in the
UK
If I were to decide where to go in office, I would now most definately
advise against corporates upgrading. There'd be a negative ROI
From: tim on 13 May 2008 13:51
Its funny I have been using 07 for a good number of weeks, I enjoy it as a
breath of fresh air over the last versions and after watching

(http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2008/03/12/the-story-of-the-ribbon.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage)

It think they did a great job, but I would also say that what people are
saying has bit of truth to it. I hate to say it but at some point people need
to stop crying about the way things used to be. See relearning office is
costly but like anything else it is an investment, also in my case It was one
of the better things that has happened to me, I have found a ton of *new*
things out about office and I found better ways to complete old tasks. At
first production was a bit lacking, now I find it to be 40-50% more than over
the older version. (Remove Dups alone has saved me hours of work). I must say
my boss has a Change is welcomed mind set so it helps greatly with allowing
time for this.

Though I would say more customizing of the Ribbon is needed. I'm not a super
user, and I'm get lost in XML or programming so to make a custom Tab is
outside my ability to understand. Also I do have problems with needing to
change and move things around so being able to change more color schemes in
office would be amazing. (or allowing one to make their own)

So after reading “Who moved my Cheese” or “The Black Swan” take some time
to get to know office 07.

Also Milly I know your very helpful, though you sound very condescending on
this, rather then rip people try listing to what they have to say to make a
product better then stick your head in the sand.

"weewillie(a)anon.com" wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:11:21 -0700, "Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"
> <What(a)ever> wrote:
>
> >What I do find inflexible is the opinion that Microsoft should take a step backwards to satisfy the few who find the Ribbon non-intuitive or difficult to manage. For those people, why not stick with what works (Office 2003 or prior) rather than demand that Microsoft bend to your will and produce a retrograde product.
>
> I think the key here is corporates
>
> I run a small business and for me the requirement to re-train to use,
> what would normally be labelled as 'common or garden office software'
> is an enormous addittional workload, coupled with the uncertainty it
> brings, with suddenly finding you don't know how to do ordinary tasks
> that used to be second nature.
>
> I've been the finance and IT director of several companies here in the
> UK
> If I were to decide where to go in office, I would now most definately
> advise against corporates upgrading. There'd be a negative ROI
>
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