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From: HDI on 14 Apr 2008 14:15
On 14 apr, 17:41, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:
> HDI wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the explanation.
>
> > I tried to run cpuz but on that computer I got an windows error so I
> > couldn't check the chipset.
>
> > I was looking at some dual monitor cards and saw that the power supply
> > requirements of the card require 350Watt or more and I've got only
> > 220W of output.
> > Is this too low or am I looking at the wrong ones. (I need a good
> > quiet one for administration)
>
> You were running a Geforce2 MX200, and that was drawing some power.
> The older cards would tend to draw as much current from +3.3V as
> they were allowed (something like 6 amps). So you could count on
> them using at least 20 watts.
>
> I don't have power numbers for all the modern cards. Xbitlabs
> measures some video cards, and so those numbers are available.
>
> You could use something like an ATI 9250. This one has no fan on
> it, and is passively cooled. That tells you the power would be
> reasonably low.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-241-075-05.jpg
>
> The thing is, I don't know what type of connectors you are looking for
> in a graphics card. That ATI 9250 card has one VGA connector and
> one DVI-I. By using a DVI-I to VGA adapter, you would get a second
> VGA connector. So the card could drive two VGA monitors.
>
> There is an Nvidia 6200 with a couple VGA connectors on it.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-139-028-03.jpg
>
> This ATI HD 2400 pro has nice connectors on it (two dual link DVI-I)
> but since it has a fan for cooling, it might be a few watts more than
> the 9250. I cannot find a measured power number for it. It is
> listed as "25W" here (and that 25W would be when in 3D mode -
> most of the time, the power would be lower than that).
>
> 2400PRO512ASB (HD 2400 Pro, Diamond brand, $85)http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-103-046-05.jpg
>
> (Power listed as 25 watts)http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=526&card2=
>
> Another card (that isn't being made any more), would be a 7600 GS AGP.
> But it is listed as 32 watts, on this page.
>
> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=526&card2=434
>
> When Xbitlabs did a measurement, they didn't have a 7600 GS, and used
> a 7600 GT and turned down the clocks on the card, to emulate a 7600 GS.
> The card they used would also be PCI Express, meaning the card would be
> missing the Rialto bridge chip on the back side of the card. The
> power number they got was 27.4W at full (3D) power.
>
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise_6.html
>
> But it looks like this picture of a 7600 GS AGP, has a Molex power
> connector on the end of the card, and that is generally a sign of
> higher power usage. Strange.
>
> http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/directron_1993_214060693
>
> There are some older video card power numbers listed here. Selecting
> a video card, causes the estimates to appear in the spreadsheet.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20040411032947/http://www.takaman.jp/psu_c...
>
> I think I'd give the HD 2400 Pro a try, if I needed maximum flexibility
> in terms of the connectors on the card. Of course, check to see if it has
> drivers for your OS. To run two VGA 15 pin monitors with the HD 2400 Pro,
> you'd need to buy two DVI-I to VGA adapter plugs.
>
> Or, you could get the 9250, if you wanted to run a couple VGA connector
> equipped monitors. Drivers should be less of a problem, unless you're
> trying to run Vista or something.
>
>     Paul

>I don't know what type of connectors you are looking for
>in a graphics card.

I was thinking of one vga and one dvi-i connector.

> Or, you could get the 9250, if you wanted to run a couple VGA connector
> equipped monitors. Drivers should be less of a problem, unless you're
> trying to run Vista or something.

It's for Windows xp pro.
From: HDI on 15 Apr 2008 09:38
On 15 apr, 08:53, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:
> HDI wrote:
>
> >> I don't know what type of connectors you are looking for
> >> in a graphics card.
>
> > I was thinking of one vga and one dvi-i connector.
>
> >> Or, you could get the 9250, if you wanted to run a couple VGA connector
> >> equipped monitors. Drivers should be less of a problem, unless you're
> >> trying to run Vista or something.
>
> > It's for Windows xp pro.
>
> MSI NX6200AX-TD256H D2 GeForce 6200 256MB 64-bit GDDR2 AGP 8X Video Card - Retail  $33http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127317
>
> Click the "products supported" for a list of cards supported by the driver..
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_169.21_whql.html
>
> *******
>
> On the ATI side, this card is passively cooled (meaning low input power).
>
> HIS Hightech H955H256-1TOAN Radeon 9550 256MB 128-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card - Retail $40http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161080
>
> This is the driver obtained, when I looked for something for 9250. 6.11 means
> the driver was released Nov.2006. The actual product support list doesn't list
> the 9250 explicitly on this download page.
>
> http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/radeon-prer300-xp.html
>
> The 9550, on the other hand, shows up in the 8.3 driver, which would have
> been released Mar. 2008. Which means the support is a little more recent
> (even if new code was probably not added for such an old card). The 9550
> is supposed to be DX9 in hardware. (The 9250 is listed as DX8.1 .)
>
> http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=xp/radeonx-xp
>
> *******
>
> The above two cards aren't too expensive.
>
> You can have a look through the list here, and visually check for the VGA/DVI-I
> connector combination you want, and select a card with passive cooling and
> good reviews.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=201038004....
>
> These pages can help decipher the vital statistics.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20050305080648/http://www.benchmark.pl/art...http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php
>
> A note on passively cooled cards. I have a couple FX5200 cards, both passively
> cooled. One is stable without a fan pointed at it, and the other needs a
> fan pointed at it, to be stable. So even though they provided a heatsink,
> that doesn't mean the heatsink was installed very well, or was tested
> thoroughly. I use an 80mm fan mounted in an adjacent slot to the
> card that isn't so stable, to help cool it.
>
> HTH,
>       Paul

I've looked here in the shops for passively cooled agp dual monitor
cards.

What do you think of these (they have to handle at least a resolution
of 1440x900):

* Gigabyte Geforce 7600 GS 256 MB (GV-N76G256D-RH)

Is the max power draw of 32 W too much for this computer?
The interface is AGP 8X and my current one is AGP 4X. If my
motherbord can handle only 4X will this work?

* XFX GeForce 6200A 256 MB (PV-T44A-WANG)


The second one is two times as expensive as the first one.
From: HDI on 17 Apr 2008 04:27
On 15 apr, 17:16, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:
> HDI wrote:
>
> > I've looked here in the shops for passively cooled agp dual monitor
> > cards.
>
> > What do you think of these (they have to handle at least a resolution
> > of 1440x900):
>
> > * Gigabyte Geforce 7600 GS 256 MB (GV-N76G256D-RH)
>
> >   Is the max power draw of 32 W too much for this computer?
> >   The interface is AGP 8X and my current one is AGP 4X. If my
> > motherbord can handle only 4X will this work?
>
> > * XFX GeForce 6200A 256 MB (PV-T44A-WANG)
>
> > The second one is two times as expensive as the first one.
>
> That one is an interesting mix of features. On the one hand, it has an external
> power connector. (Usually a sign of slightly higher power consumption.)
> The idea is, they wanted a source of +12V to run the power conversion,
> without the limitations of the current carrying capabilities of the
> pins on the AGP slot. On the other hand, the heatsink is passive (and
> the heatsink is a bit larger than some of the other passively cooled
> cards). I'd say this is a possible solution, as you don't plan to
> use the 3D features, so it probably won't get that hot.
>
> GIGABYTE GeForce 7600GS GV-N76G256D-RH Video Cardhttp://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-125-039-09.jpg
>
> The 7600GS power varies between 14W and 28W or so, according to this
> estimation (they used a 7600GT and downclocked it, to make the
> measurement).
>
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise_6.html
>
> You can read some of the review comments here. They mention the heatsink
> runs pretty hot, so you may want to place a fan near the card. You can
> connect a computer case fan to one of your motherboard fan headers, to get
> a source of power for the fan.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16814125039
>
> The second card (PV-T44A-WANG) is apparently carried by Dell. A non-Dell
> web site lists the price as being somewhere in the $50 USD range. A couple
> places list it as out of stock, but may be arriving soon. This site lists
> the card for $42.
>
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=3903480
>
> Judging by the size of the heatsink, the 6200 draws less power. Note that
> the FX5200 AGP that I had a fan mounted next to, had the exact same kind
> of heatsink as your 6200. So it still might need a fan, if there are
> signs of instability.
>
> If you can find the 6200 card for a reasonable price, then that might
> run a bit cooler. If you don't want to deal with Internet sellers, then
> get the 7600GS card. You'll need to provide a source of power to the 7600GS,
> to the four pin Molex on the end of the card. If your power supply doesn't
> have any spare Molex power connectors, you can use a "Y cable" to make
> another connector for it. (Some video cards, like my ATI 9800Pro, included a
> Y cable for power.) There is a female and two male connectors, and allows
> extending power from the back of a disk drive. I've used quite a few
> of these, for my computers, for one thing and another. I've also used
> them to power fans.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/12-201-006-02.jpg
>
> The 7600GS won't use its maximum power, unless you are doing stuff
> involving 3D. Games are something that uses 3D. Vista also does a
> bit of 3D (Aero interface, compositing of windows etc). Perhaps an
> application that uses OpenGL, would kick the card into 3D mode as
> well.
>
> Some video cards support user adjustment of core and memory clocks.
> If you want to further reduce the power consumption of a card, then
> turning down the clocks being used on the card, is one way to do it.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RivaTuner
>
> In terms of installing the card, this is what I'd recommend.
>
> 1) Make sure you have a driver to install on the new card. There should
>     be a CD in the box. You can also download a more recent driver from
>     the Internet before you start work.
> 2) Uninstall the existing driver for the MX200. Check Add/Remove control
>     panel, and look for the Nvidia driver.
> 3) Shut down and remove power from the computer. Change video cards.
> 4) On bootup, the new card will operate in a vanilla VGA mode.
>     Install the new Nvidia driver. After a reboot, you should be offered
>     more output resolutions, and be able to set up the display properly.
> 5) If the card runs too hot (either behaves unstable, or you burn yourself
>     on the heatsink), then either you can experiment with Rivatuner or
>     you can purchase a case cooling fan, and fit that next to the card,
>     blowing on the heatsink.
>
> If you need a fan, this is an example. I have one of the larger Vantec
> fans, and it is pretty quiet. This one is 80mm square, and 27 CFM.
> It is pictured with a Molex power connector, so if you purchased
> yet another Molex Y cable, both this fan and the 7600GS power connector,
> could run off an existing disk drive power cable.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16811999602
>
> Finding a bracket to hold a fan, can actually be difficult. I made
> my own bracket, using a piece of aluminum from the hardware store
> (L shaped cross section). This is an example of a retail kit, that
> could hold a fan where it is needed. This kit would allow positioning
> a fan next to a video card (but takes up a slot or more).
>
> http://www.logisyscomputer.com/viewsku.asp?SKUID=CF108&DID=COOLDEVhttp://www.logisyscomputer.com/images/SKUImages/CF108_13.jpg  (picture)
>
> There are also complete heatsink replacements for video cards, but
> fitting cards that have an HSI bridge, is a bit more difficult. (Cooling
> kits don't always fit AGP cards.) And the replacement coolers also make
> your overall video card purchase a lot more expensive than it should be.
> This is an example of one.
>
> Here, someone is fitting a VF700 to their video card. The blue heatsink
> covers the HSI chip. The problem with this, is the top edge of the
> VF700, can bump into the side panel on the computer case. The video
> card in this case, is a 6600GT AGP, a 50W card.
>
> http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9413/660029to.jpg
>
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-consumption2006_7....
>
> HTH,
>     Paul- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Another problem: When I look at the resolutions supported 1440 x 900
isn't in the list.

Maybe I have to start all over and thinking of getting a new power
supply.
From: HDI on 17 Apr 2008 08:35
On 17 apr, 14:17, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:
> HDI wrote:
> > On 15 apr, 17:16, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:
> >> HDI wrote:
>
> >>> I've looked here in the shops for passively cooled agp dual monitor
> >>> cards.
> >>> What do you think of these (they have to handle at least a resolution
> >>> of 1440x900):
> >>> * Gigabyte Geforce 7600 GS 256 MB (GV-N76G256D-RH)
> >>>   Is the max power draw of 32 W too much for this computer?
> >>>   The interface is AGP 8X and my current one is AGP 4X. If my
> >>> motherbord can handle only 4X will this work?
> >>> * XFX GeForce 6200A 256 MB (PV-T44A-WANG)
> >>> The second one is two times as expensive as the first one.
> >> That one is an interesting mix of features. On the one hand, it has an external
> >> power connector. (Usually a sign of slightly higher power consumption.)
> >> The idea is, they wanted a source of +12V to run the power conversion,
> >> without the limitations of the current carrying capabilities of the
> >> pins on the AGP slot. On the other hand, the heatsink is passive (and
> >> the heatsink is a bit larger than some of the other passively cooled
> >> cards). I'd say this is a possible solution, as you don't plan to
> >> use the 3D features, so it probably won't get that hot.
>
> >> GIGABYTE GeForce 7600GS GV-N76G256D-RH Video Cardhttp://c1.neweggimages..com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-125-039-09.jpg
>
> >> The 7600GS power varies between 14W and 28W or so, according to this
> >> estimation (they used a 7600GT and downclocked it, to make the
> >> measurement).
>
> >>http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise_6.html
>
> >> You can read some of the review comments here. They mention the heatsink
> >> runs pretty hot, so you may want to place a fan near the card. You can
> >> connect a computer case fan to one of your motherboard fan headers, to get
> >> a source of power for the fan.
>
> >>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16814125039
>
> >> The second card (PV-T44A-WANG) is apparently carried by Dell. A non-Dell
> >> web site lists the price as being somewhere in the $50 USD range. A couple
> >> places list it as out of stock, but may be arriving soon. This site lists
> >> the card for $42.
>
> >>http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=3903480
>
> >> Judging by the size of the heatsink, the 6200 draws less power. Note that
> >> the FX5200 AGP that I had a fan mounted next to, had the exact same kind
> >> of heatsink as your 6200. So it still might need a fan, if there are
> >> signs of instability.
>
> >> If you can find the 6200 card for a reasonable price, then that might
> >> run a bit cooler. If you don't want to deal with Internet sellers, then
> >> get the 7600GS card. You'll need to provide a source of power to the 7600GS,
> >> to the four pin Molex on the end of the card. If your power supply doesn't
> >> have any spare Molex power connectors, you can use a "Y cable" to make
> >> another connector for it. (Some video cards, like my ATI 9800Pro, included a
> >> Y cable for power.) There is a female and two male connectors, and allows
> >> extending power from the back of a disk drive. I've used quite a few
> >> of these, for my computers, for one thing and another. I've also used
> >> them to power fans.
>
> >>http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/12-201-006-02.jpg
>
> >> The 7600GS won't use its maximum power, unless you are doing stuff
> >> involving 3D. Games are something that uses 3D. Vista also does a
> >> bit of 3D (Aero interface, compositing of windows etc). Perhaps an
> >> application that uses OpenGL, would kick the card into 3D mode as
> >> well.
>
> >> Some video cards support user adjustment of core and memory clocks.
> >> If you want to further reduce the power consumption of a card, then
> >> turning down the clocks being used on the card, is one way to do it.
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RivaTuner
>
> >> In terms of installing the card, this is what I'd recommend.
>
> >> 1) Make sure you have a driver to install on the new card. There should
> >>     be a CD in the box. You can also download a more recent driver from
> >>     the Internet before you start work.
> >> 2) Uninstall the existing driver for the MX200. Check Add/Remove control
> >>     panel, and look for the Nvidia driver.
> >> 3) Shut down and remove power from the computer. Change video cards.
> >> 4) On bootup, the new card will operate in a vanilla VGA mode.
> >>     Install the new Nvidia driver. After a reboot, you should be offered
> >>     more output resolutions, and be able to set up the display properly.
> >> 5) If the card runs too hot (either behaves unstable, or you burn yourself
> >>     on the heatsink), then either you can experiment with Rivatuner or
> >>     you can purchase a case cooling fan, and fit that next to the card,
> >>     blowing on the heatsink.
>
> >> If you need a fan, this is an example. I have one of the larger Vantec
> >> fans, and it is pretty quiet. This one is 80mm square, and 27 CFM.
> >> It is pictured with a Molex power connector, so if you purchased
> >> yet another Molex Y cable, both this fan and the 7600GS power connector,
> >> could run off an existing disk drive power cable.
>
> >>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16811999602
>
> >> Finding a bracket to hold a fan, can actually be difficult. I made
> >> my own bracket, using a piece of aluminum from the hardware store
> >> (L shaped cross section). This is an example of a retail kit, that
> >> could hold a fan where it is needed. This kit would allow positioning
> >> a fan next to a video card (but takes up a slot or more).
>
> >>http://www.logisyscomputer.com/viewsku.asp?SKUID=CF108&DID=COOLDEVhtt... (picture)
>
> >> There are also complete heatsink replacements for video cards, but
> >> fitting cards that have an HSI bridge, is a bit more difficult. (Cooling
> >> kits don't always fit AGP cards.) And the replacement coolers also make
> >> your overall video card purchase a lot more expensive than it should be..
> >> This is an example of one.
>
> >> Here, someone is fitting a VF700 to their video card. The blue heatsink
> >> covers the HSI chip. The problem with this, is the top edge of the
> >> VF700, can bump into the side panel on the computer case. The video
> >> card in this case, is a 6600GT AGP, a 50W card.
>
> >>http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9413/660029to.jpg
>
> >>http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-consumption2006_7....
>
> >> HTH,
> >>     Paul- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> >> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > Another problem: When I look at the resolutions supported 1440 x 900
> > isn't in the list.
>
> > Maybe I have to start all over and thinking of getting a new power
> > supply.
>
> For the 7600GS, this is the Gigabyte web page.
>
> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?Produc...
>
> Gigabyte has a link at the bottom of the page, listing resolutions. Page 2
> has the resolution you are looking for.
>
> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/NewTech/2006_vga_newtech/standard...
>
> *******
>
> This is the page for PV-T44A-WANG, the 6200a. There isn't really any
> reassurances of what modes are supported here.
>
> http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa?pro...
>
> If I look at the release notes of the latest Nvidia driver release -
>
> http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/169.21/169.21_WinXP_Forceware_R...
>
> On page 50 is a list of cards and their combined resolution options. The
> top of page 54 lists this:
>
> 1440 x 900 32      60 70 72 75 85 100 120 140 144 150 170 200
>
> That is 1440x900 in 32 bit color, at refresh rates from 60 to 200. Now,
> we know that this is an analog specification (because the digital wouldn't
> support refresh that high), so that specification is what the VGA
> connector is capable of. The digital DVI specification should not support
> quite as high a refresh rate.
>
> So I cannot say I have 100% assurance that both analog and digital support
> that resolution on the 6200A, because the release notes document doesn't
> present the resolution information as nicely as the Gigabyte document
> does. It probably does, but I cannot guarantee it.
>
>     Paul- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I was looking for the 7600GS.

When you see on page 36 of het manual,
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/VGA/Manual_DownloadFile.aspx?FileType=Manual&FileID=17420,
you can see the resolutions in windows xp. As you can see it jumps
from 1360 * 768 to 1600 * 900.

From: HDI on 18 Apr 2008 05:20
On 17 apr, 15:19, Paul <nos...(a)needed.com> wrote:
> HDI wrote:
> > I was looking for the 7600GS.
>
> > When you see on page 36 of het manual,
> >http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/VGA/Manual_DownloadFile.aspx?FileT...,
> > you can see the resolutions in windows xp. As you can see it jumps
> > from 1360 * 768 to 1600 * 900.
>
> This is from the Gigabyte web page. Download this file.
>
> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/NewTech/2006_vga_newtech/standard...
>
> That file is available when you click the "More Information" at the bottom of this page.
>
> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?Produc...
>
> The resolution is programmable in hardware. The table in the manual is not
> fixed by the hardware. The driver software makes those settings programmable
> and a new driver can change the values.
>
> For instances where the drivers do not list support for a particular
> resolution, you can use Powerstrip. But I don't think that is necessary
> in this case. I would use the standard Nvidia software first, and try and
> set it up.
>
> http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm
>
> Entechtaiwan has a forum with frequently asked question files.
>
> http://forums.entechtaiwan.net/viewforum.php?f=7
>
> This is the "Custom Resolution Primer".
>
> http://forums.entechtaiwan.net/viewtopic.php?t=24
>
> As well as Powerstrip, the Nvidia control panel frequently has a
> "Custom Resolution" dialog box as well. So it can be used to
> set resolutions not in the chart.
>
> So you do have options, if the standard software doesn't work for you.
>
>     Paul

First of all to thank you for the excellent help.
As you can see I've still a lot to learn.

One thing I want to check is the card compatibility.

When I was reading the reviews on newegg.com I found a topic that this
card does not support AGP 4X.
On http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2334
I can only find that it supports AGP 8X.

Previously we talk about this so I check playtool again.

845 is "AGP 1.5V Motherboard"
Nvidia GeForce 7600 is an universal 1.5v agp 3.0 card.

I checked the "Practical Motherboard And Card Compatibility" table and
it should work at 1.5V.

So when I check this the card works in my motherboard or am I missing
something and is the Nvidia GeForce 7600GS card different as the one I
found in the list, the Nvidia GeForce 7600GS?


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