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From: Howard Brazee on 31 Mar 2008 09:24
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:47:46 +0000 (UTC), docdwarf(a)panix.com () wrote:

>>Where I work (yes someone gave me a job) they can not get Cobol
>>programmers under the age of 50 (I am the youngest at 50).
>
>Have they tried doubling their rates? Have they offered programmers in
>other languages training in COBOL... with a bonus and pay-rise upon
>completion of the course so they don't get hired away?

A large reason that companies are switching from CoBOL is that they
can find already-trained programmers in other languages without
doubling their rates.

Money always enters in to the equation.
From: Alistair on 29 Mar 2008 15:04
On 28 Mar, 21:47, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote:
> In article <ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...(a)s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Alistair  <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 28 Mar, 18:32, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote:
> >> In article <9q9qu35lpv209ksgt2rjuiioju662ok...(a)4ax.com>,
> >> Howard Brazee  <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote:
>
> >> >http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBa...
>
> >> From the above:
>
> >> --begin quoted text:
>
> >> In a 2007 Micro Focus survey of its customers, more than 75% of CIOs said
> >> they would need more Cobol programmers over the next five years, and 73%
> >> were already having a hard time finding trained Cobol professionals.
>
> >> --end quoted text
>
> >> Never mind that Micro Focus is looking to sell various products... note,
> >> once again, the 'already having a hard time finding trained Cobol
> >> professionals'.
>
> >> At what rate (or range of rates)?  
>
> >Where I work (yes someone gave me a job) they can not get Cobol
> >programmers under the age of 50 (I am the youngest at 50).
>
> Have they tried doubling their rates?  Have they offered programmers in
> other languages training in COBOL... with a bonus and pay-rise upon
> completion of the course so they don't get hired away?
>

I suspect that the Java programmers would walk out en masse if offered
the opportunity to retrain.
From: Alistair on 29 Mar 2008 15:05
On 29 Mar, 00:12, billg...(a)cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> In article <ac5d2762-1789-4696-8918-8b00948bc...(a)s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>         Alistair <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 28 Mar, 18:32, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote:
> >> In article <9q9qu35lpv209ksgt2rjuiioju662ok...(a)4ax.com>,
> >> Howard Brazee  <how...(a)brazee.net> wrote:
>
> >> >http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBa...
>
> >> From the above:
>
> >> --begin quoted text:
>
> >> In a 2007 Micro Focus survey of its customers, more than 75% of CIOs said
> >> they would need more Cobol programmers over the next five years, and 73%
> >> were already having a hard time finding trained Cobol professionals.
>
> >> --end quoted text
>
> >> Never mind that Micro Focus is looking to sell various products... note,
> >> once again, the 'already having a hard time finding trained Cobol
> >> professionals'.
>
> >> At what rate (or range of rates)?  
>
> > Where I work (yes someone gave me a job) they can not get Cobol
> > programmers under the age of 50 (I am the youngest at 50).
>
> What's wrong with programmers over 50?
>

Nothing. 50 is a good age to be (just coming into my prime).
From: Alistair on 29 Mar 2008 15:12
On 29 Mar, 01:13, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote:
> In article <92694c30-327e-42b4-9026-3adcea8d0...(a)e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Alistair  <alist...(a)ld50macca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 28 Mar, 22:06, docdw...(a)panix.com () wrote:
>
> >> 'How many of you think that all men are mortal?' (hands up)
> >> 'How many of you think that Socrates is a man?' (hands up)
> >> 'How many of you think that Socrates is mortal?'  'Uh..... maybe I was
> >> wrong when I said I thought all men are mortal... or maybe Socrates isn't
> >> a man now.'
>
> >Tsk! Tsk! Even you should know better than to ask these questions.
>
> >Men ARE mortal.
> >Socrates WAS a man.
> >Socrates has been proven to be mortal (for most peoples' value of
> >PROVEN).
>
> Mr Maclean, might it be possible that the questions I posed referred to a
> Socrates who is still alive today?  The name is not unique, last I looked.

Now you come to mention it, I do recall seeing a Socrates playing
football (soccer to you, and I don't know which team he played for
either). Conceivably there may be many female Socrates too.


> >Have you been a student of philosophy or should I be enquiring as to
> >how you can afford the time to research all of your answers?
>
> I have read a few things on the backs of several cereal-boxes here and
> there, Mr Maclean... no, wait, Prior Analytics would be on the front, on
> the back one should find Posterior Analytics.  This wonderful web-thingie
> allows for rapid research and citing, yes... but the old form of 'Author,
> Title, (publisher, edition, printing), book, chapter, section, paragraph,
> sentence, word' for citing was one I learned long before it existed.

So it is down to t'web and not any edikashun you have been subjected
to? I suppose answering an answer with a question is no question/
answer either.
From: HeyBub on 29 Mar 2008 22:11
docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote:
>
> As a man who has seen a bit of the business world I come to believe
> there
> is a difference between 'I can find no (x)' and 'I can find no (x)
> which
> cost less than (amount)'.

Put it another way: "There is no shortage of COBOL programmers; there's
only a shortage of CHEAP COBOL programmers."




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