Cool trick in Reaper
in [Cakewalk]
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From: Ricky Hunt on 4 Apr 2008 01:45 "Glennbo" <vdrumsYourHeadFromYourAss(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:Xns9A75DFC2890EFBrownShoesDontMakeIt(a)69.28.186.120... > > So I've been trying out sidechaining tonight. What I've found is that if > you put a REAcomp on a track, set the track for *four* track channels in > the I/O settings, set the detector input of REAcomp to channels 3 and 4, > then you can do cool stuff like stick any other plugin in front of the > compressor and set it's outs to channels 3 and 4, then you can drive the > compressor off the output of another effect that has no effect on the > sound, but only on triggering the compressor. > > An EQ feeding the detector circuit can suddenly do things like de-ess. > The EQ doesn't have any effect on the signal in the chain, because only > channels 1 and 2 are the audible signal, but the EQ is being fed by > whatever is on that channel, and the EQ's output is simply triggering the > compressor, rather than the direct signal on the channel. I gotta mess > with this some more, it's way cool! Most good hardware (and software) de-essers work this way. That's one reason (and locking drum and bass together) that I used to complain about Sonar not having true subs for so long.
From: Rick Paul on 4 Apr 2008 13:10 "Glennbo" <vdrumsYourHeadFromYourAss(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:Xns9A7658E2E3E35BrownShoesDontMakeIt(a)207.115.17.102... > In news:3gjJj.51790$TT4.13339(a)attbi_s22 the killer robot "Ricky Hunt" > <rhunt22(a)hotmail.com> grabbed the controls of the spaceship > cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >>> So I've been trying out sidechaining tonight. What I've found is >>> that if you put a REAcomp on a track, set the track for *four* track >>> channels in the I/O settings, set the detector input of REAcomp to >>> channels 3 and 4, then you can do cool stuff like stick any other >>> plugin in front of the compressor and set it's outs to channels 3 and >>> 4, then you can drive the compressor off the output of another effect >>> that has no effect on the sound, but only on triggering the >>> compressor. >>> >>> An EQ feeding the detector circuit can suddenly do things like >>> de-ess. The EQ doesn't have any effect on the signal in the chain, >>> because only channels 1 and 2 are the audible signal, but the EQ is >>> being fed by whatever is on that channel, and the EQ's output is >>> simply triggering the compressor, rather than the direct signal on >>> the channel. I gotta mess with this some more, it's way cool! >> >> Most good hardware (and software) de-essers work this way. That's one >> reason (and locking drum and bass together) that I used to complain >> about Sonar not having true subs for so long. > > So can Sonar 7's sidechain function detect from another effect, without > actually passing the audible audio through the other effect? This > diagram > probably won't line up unless you are using a fixed pitch font in your > newsreader, but this is all done on a single audio track that's set for > four instead of two audio pipelines. The left and right primary lines go > straight from the source through the compressor, bypassing the EQ, so the > EQ has no effect on the tone of the signal. The left and right secondary > lines go through the EQ, and the EQ's output goes to the detection circuit > of the compressor. What you do on the EQ has an effect on how and when > the > compressor kicks in, but doesn't color the sound in any way itself, > because > it's not in the audible chain. > > > [Audio Input] > / \ > 1 2 3 4 > | | | | > | | [Equalizer] > | | | | > | | ____[Detection > | | / > [Compressor] > | | > [Audio Output] > L R First off, the note on "most good hardware/software de-essers work this way" doesn't necessarily depend on SONAR's routing at all. Even compressors without a true side chain sometimes have a side chain, and that generally has EQ ranges to filter what is used in the detection, without actually affecting the source signal to the compressor, only the detection circuit. So, for example, you might be passing the full signal from a vocal through the compressor, but be the portion of the signal used for engaging compression to only work on frequencies above 4 kHz. You don't need anything special in SONAR for that scenario, but not all compressors have that sort of built-in detection circuit filtering, which is often called a side chain even if it isn't a true side chain. As for SONAR 7's true side chain, which does depend on effects having true side chains, they are very flexible -- basically just like using audio cables, only with even more flexibility (it's kind of like having a mixer that ultimatel outputs into the audio cable that goes to the side chain). When you insert a plug-in with a true side chain, that side chain is available as a bus, and you can route anything to it you would route to any bus, including signals from from track outputs, bus outputs, and track/bus sends (which can be pre- or post-fader). Just off the top of my head, if the compressor's side chain didn't automatically have the EQ-type function available in it, in which case you wouldn't need a true side chain, I think the logical way to do this in SONAR 7 would be to put the EQ on a bus and feed a pre-fader send from the audio track in question to that bus, then make the output of that bus feed the compressor's side chain. That way the EQ'd audio signal being used to trigger the compressor wouldn't be going anywhere except to the side chain of the compressor. Of course, if you also wanted it to go somewhere else, that is entirely possible, too, simply by using sends in the bus to split it in multiple directions (in which case you'd probably use the bus output to go to any real uses of the audio, while using post-FX/post-fader sends to route the EQ'd signal to the compressor's side chain). What SONAR adds to what it appears Reaper is allowing in this area (unless there is more you're just not showing in your diagram) is the ability to send multiple source signals into the side chain (i.e. in this case the compressor's detector circuit). For example, if you wanted to use the compressor to duck one track based on any of multiple tracks, for example ducking a synth pad slightly any time any of multiple background vocals, which don't necessarily all sing at the same time, are going on, or ducking a music bed when any of multiple mics used by actors in a voiceover scenario gets used, you could route sends from all those mics to the same compressor sidechain bus. Whether that is the desirable way to do it or not, may depend on whether you really want an additive effect of the level of stuff going on in parallel in the "submix" you're sending to the detector to affect the amount of compression, but that might also just be affecting how you set the compressor, too. Also, with SONAR, you could have one track (or bus) sending to multiple compressor side chains. For example, say you want to duck all instrumental tracks slightly when the lead vocal comes in, but you don't want to just duck a submix of the instruments. Rather, you want to duck each instrument by slightly different amounts, for example ducking the ones that conflict with the frequency range of the voice a bit more than ones that are outside that range. With SONAR 7 you could just have a side chainable compressor on each instrument track, then set up multiple sends on the vocal track to feed as many instrument track compressors as needed. Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
From: Ricky Hunt on 4 Apr 2008 16:14 "Glennbo" <vdrumsYourHeadFromYourAss(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:Xns9A767F926C8B9BrownShoesDontMakeIt(a)207.115.17.102... > > You can feed the detection circuit on a compressor in Reaper from other > tracks, subs, or pretty much anything in any signal path. I was just > amazed at Reaper's ability to do it all within a single track, using no > busses, or other tracks to make it happen. No. Sonar can't do it that way. Well, unless you count the old compressor where you put the audio on one channel (left I think) and the control (what would go into the sidechain input) on the other track. It was actually a pretty cool little workaround. You could even make it work in stereo (but you had to use two tracks).
From: polymod on 4 Apr 2008 17:36 "Glennbo" <vdrumsYourHeadFromYourAss(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:Xns9A769DCB3E903BrownShoesDontMakeIt(a)207.115.17.102... > In news:c_vJj.105821$yE1.54423(a)attbi_s21 the killer robot "Ricky Hunt" > <rhunt22(a)hotmail.com> grabbed the controls of the spaceship > cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > > >> You can feed the detection circuit on a compressor in Reaper from > >> other tracks, subs, or pretty much anything in any signal path. I > >> was just amazed at Reaper's ability to do it all within a single > >> track, using no busses, or other tracks to make it happen. > > > > No. Sonar can't do it that way. Well, unless you count the old > > compressor where you put the audio on one channel (left I think) and > > the control (what would go into the sidechain input) on the other > > track. It was actually a pretty cool little workaround. You could even > > make it work in stereo (but you had to use two tracks). > > From what Rick posted, it sounds like Sonar 7 can pretty much do the same > kind of side chaining, with the exception of being able to in a single > track use another effect as the trigger for the detection circuit for the > compressor. It can achieve the same thing, but doing it through a send and > and a sub with the other effect on it. Si si senior. :-) Poly
From: polymod on 4 Apr 2008 18:42
"Glennbo" <vdrumsYourHeadFromYourAss(a)cox.net> wrote in message news:Xns9A76B1EB05DBEBrownShoesDontMakeIt(a)69.28.186.120... > In news:47f69fd2$0$15186$607ed4bc(a)cv.net the killer robot "polymod" > <polymod(a)optonline.net> grabbed the controls of the spaceship > cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > > >> >> You can feed the detection circuit on a compressor in Reaper from > >> >> other tracks, subs, or pretty much anything in any signal path. I > >> >> was just amazed at Reaper's ability to do it all within a single > >> >> track, using no busses, or other tracks to make it happen. > >> > > >> > No. Sonar can't do it that way. Well, unless you count the old > >> > compressor where you put the audio on one channel (left I think) > >> > and the control (what would go into the sidechain input) on the > >> > other track. It was actually a pretty cool little workaround. You > >> > could even make it work in stereo (but you had to use two tracks). > >> > >> From what Rick posted, it sounds like Sonar 7 can pretty much do the > >> same kind of side chaining, with the exception of being able to in a > >> single track use another effect as the trigger for the detection > >> circuit for the compressor. It can achieve the same thing, but doing > >> it through a send and and a sub with the other effect on it. > > > > Si si senior. > > If Cake was more reasonable on their upgrade pricing I'd prolly pop for > Sonar 7, just to be more compatible with you, but I simply can't justify > spending $229.00 on something that isn't really that different than the > Sonar 5 I have now. The fifty bucks I spent on Reaper got me all kinds of > new features that don't exist in any version of Sonar and they are things > that I'll actually use. You probably wouldn't need the xtras, so I think it's $99 for the 'studio' version. I know, that's still quite a bit. If Santa didn't get mine, I'd prolly still be in 2.2! Poly |