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From: TaliesinSoft on 4 May 2008 21:08
A button on a website typically has three states commonly referred to as
"normal", "over", and "click".

"Normal" is what is displayed when the cursor is not positioned over the
button.

"Over" is what is displayed when the cursor is positioned over the button and
the mouse is not clicked.

"Click" is what is displayed and what happens when the cursor is positioned
over the button and the mouse is clicked.

I've noticed that there are two common behaviors for the "click" state. The
first is that the appearance of the button changes upon a mouse down and the
action takes place upon the subsequent mouse up. The second is that the
action takes place upon the mouse up and there is no action for the
subsequent mouse down.

An example of the first "down/up" behavior is the Apple website which can be
seen at <www.apple.com>.

An example of the second "up/only" behavior is a website I'm developing
which can be seen at <http://homepage.mac.com/taliesinsoft/ECR/>.

My query is to whether there is any agreed upon standard or convention in
regards to button behavior.




--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft(a)mac.com

From: Heath Raftery on 5 May 2008 00:19
In comp.sys.mac.apps TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft(a)mac.coom> wrote:
> A button on a website typically has three states commonly referred to as
> "normal", "over", and "click".
>
> "Normal" is what is displayed when the cursor is not positioned over the
> button.
>
> "Over" is what is displayed when the cursor is positioned over the button and
> the mouse is not clicked.
>
> "Click" is what is displayed and what happens when the cursor is positioned
> over the button and the mouse is clicked.
>
> I've noticed that there are two common behaviors for the "click" state. The
> first is that the appearance of the button changes upon a mouse down and the
> action takes place upon the subsequent mouse up.

Which is the way app buttons work, and have worked forever. It obviously a
representation of the physical button analogy - when you press the button
it depresses.

> The second is that the
> action takes place upon the mouse up and there is no action for the
> subsequent mouse down.

And that's laziness on the web. It's done, but it's a step backwards IMHO.

--
*--------------------------------------------------------*
| ^Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool^ |
| Heath Raftery, HRSoftWorks _\|/_ |
*______________________________________m_('.')_m_________*
From: TaliesinSoft on 5 May 2008 00:31
On Sun, 4 May 2008 20:08:32 -0500, TaliesinSoft wrote (in article
<0001HW.C443C8400016AA09B01AD9AF(a)News.Individual.NET>):

> A button on a website typically has three states commonly referred to as
> "normal", "over", and "click".
>
> "Normal" is what is displayed when the cursor is not positioned over the
> button.
>
> "Over" is what is displayed when the cursor is positioned over the button
> and the mouse is not clicked.
>
> "Click" is what is displayed and what happens when the cursor is
> positioned over the button and the mouse is clicked.
>
> I've noticed that there are two common behaviors for the "click" state.
> The first is that the appearance of the button changes upon a mouse down
> and the action takes place upon the subsequent mouse up. The second is
> that the action takes place upon the mouse up and there is no action for
> the subsequent mouse down.

Oops! That preceding sentence should have read "The second is that the action
takes place upon the mouse up and there is no action for the PRECEDING mouse
down"

> An example of the first "down/up" behavior is the Apple website which can
> be seen at <www.apple.com>.
>
> An example of the second "up/only" behavior is a website I'm developing
> which can be seen at <http://homepage.mac.com/taliesinsoft/ECR/>.
>
> My query is to whether there is any agreed upon standard or convention in
> regards to button behavior.



--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft(a)mac.com

From: TaliesinSoft on 5 May 2008 10:12
On Sun, 4 May 2008 23:56:01 -0500, Michael Vilain wrote (in article
<vilain-CBE190.21560104052008(a)comcast.dca.giganews.com>):

[responding to my opening comment in this thread about button behavior]

> Well, if you do find a "standard", I think it will then have to be tested
> on all the browsers and made to work the same on all of them, right?
> Wait. That isn't the case now.

Although I used the word "standard" I should have constrained that to just
"convention".

> Seriously, I think that "presentation issue" is more a function of
> consistency within a site. If you highlight links differently from page
> to page, people will be confused. That's just basic WEBSITES THAT SUCK
> 101.

Certainly consistency within a site is to be encouraged, but so is reasonable
consistency across sites. I think that the behavior of buttons in terms of
the "normal", "over", and "click" states is definitely an area where such
reasonable consistency is expected.

> But across different entire web, you've got to be kidding. Try getting
> everyone to agree that all links must be #0000ff, highlighted links must
> be #ff0000, and visited links must be #000080.

Now that's going farther than I thought I even hinted at! :-

> How's that working for you?

I suppose one could liken a website interface to the controls in an
automobile where one should be able to take command of a car they've never
been in and know how the different controls work.

--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft(a)mac.com

From: AES on 5 May 2008 10:16
In article <vilain-CBE190.21560104052008(a)comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Michael Vilain <vilain(a)NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> > My query is to whether there is any agreed upon standard or convention in
> > regards to button behavior.
>
> Well, if you do find a "standard", I think it will then have to be
> tested on all the browsers and made to work the same on all of them,
> right? Wait. That isn't the case now.

There's also the (IMHO much more important) question of what most users
will expect, based on their total computing experience, regardless of
whatever varied browser or other program authors may give them.

Or even, what ought to be this behavior, based on just plain public
policy concerns.

Speaking for myself, I've always understood that even after I do a mouse
down on _any_ button, or menu command, or dock item, or anything, in any
app or browser, or whatever, I can always back out of or escape from
whatever that interface element is set up to do by moving the point off
that element to a "safe" spot on the window, and then releasing it.

I strongly support that as what I think ought to be a universal mouse
characteristic: there ought to _always_ be an escape route from _any_
mouse over or mouse down.

Mouse over or mouse down can give the user "pop up" information, but
neither mouse over nor mouse down ought to _ever_ initiate any
potentially irreversible action.

And of course mouse over can be a good thing (e.g., tool tips), or a bad
and undesirable thing (big ad pops up, covering up the material you were
reading).
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