Prev: wanted: a video capture card - not RF/OTA/cable
Next: Hardware recommendations for a newbie.
From: ANTant on 18 Apr 2008 19:00
Hello. I noticed Debian doesn't make AMD K7 Kernels anymore as of
2.6.24. I assume this will be like this for future versions.

I am planning to upgrade my Kernel from 2.6.22-1-k7. Do I use amd64 or
686? I am not planning to use any 64-bit stuff on my old Athlon 64 3200+
754 single core machine (512 MB of RAM (will add 512 MB soon)) and X2
4600+ machine (2 GB of RAM).

Are there any advantages and disadvantages between 686 and amd64 beside
being able to use more memory which I doubt I am going to (2 GB is
enough). My machines are mainly workstation to do simple tasks like Web
browsing, e-mails, watch videos, newsgroups in Pan and tin, chat/IM, a
simple private server, etc. I recall using 64-bit requires more
libraries or something and lack some stuff (e.g., Adobe Flash).

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )
From: Aragorn on 18 Apr 2008 21:24
ANTant(a)zimage.com wrote:

> Hello. I noticed Debian doesn't make AMD K7 Kernels anymore as of
> 2.6.24. I assume this will be like this for future versions.
>
> I am planning to upgrade my Kernel from 2.6.22-1-k7. Do I use amd64 or
> 686?

Either will work if your CPU is 64-bit capable. ;-)

> I am not planning to use any 64-bit stuff on my old Athlon 64 3200+
> 754 single core machine (512 MB of RAM (will add 512 MB soon)) and X2
> 4600+ machine (2 GB of RAM).

Why not? Why buy a 64-bit machine and then run a 32-bit operating system on
it?

> Are there any advantages and disadvantages between 686 and amd64 beside
> being able to use more memory which I doubt I am going to (2 GB is
> enough).

Well, the /AMD64/ kernels are more likely to contain some processor-specific
code optimizations than a generic /i686/ kernel, eventhough there is a wide
enough diversity among 64-bit processors as well and so even an /AMD64/
kernel will not be fully optimized for your hardware.

The only way to really optimize your kernel for your hardware is to
reconfigure it and recompile it yourself, and then you may even want to
consider using a vanilla kernel from /kernel.org/ - currently at release
2.6.25 - than a Debian-patched kernel.

> My machines are mainly workstation to do simple tasks like Web
> browsing, e-mails, watch videos, newsgroups in Pan and tin, chat/IM, a
> simple private server, etc. I recall using 64-bit requires more
> libraries or something and lack some stuff (e.g., Adobe Flash).

No, 64-bit distributions do not need more libraries, although they may come
with a set of 32-bit libraries for certain proprietary software that does
not exist in 32-bit versions yet.

However, Adobe Flash can be used in 32-bit form with /nspluginwrapper/
inside a 64-bit browser, or natively in 32-bit form inside a 32-bit browser
- this is what you would need the extra libraries for - and there also is a
- granted - less functional FOSS alternative, i.e. GNU Gnash.

On the other hand, it's quite feasible to use a 64-bit kernel underneath an
otherwise entirely 32-bit operating system, as long as the kernel supports
32-bit compatibility, and since you're looking at a distribution-specific
kernel, this kernel will have 32-bit compatibility enabled by default.

--
Aragorn
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
From: Ant on 19 Apr 2008 01:21
On 4/18/2008 6:15 PM PT, Meat Plow typed:

>> Hello. I noticed Debian doesn't make AMD K7 Kernels anymore as of
>> 2.6.24. I assume this will be like this for future versions.
>>
>> I am planning to upgrade my Kernel from 2.6.22-1-k7. Do I use amd64 or
>> 686? I am not planning to use any 64-bit stuff on my old Athlon 64 3200+
>> 754 single core machine (512 MB of RAM (will add 512 MB soon)) and X2
>> 4600+ machine (2 GB of RAM).
>>
>> Are there any advantages and disadvantages between 686 and amd64 beside
>> being able to use more memory which I doubt I am going to (2 GB is
>> enough). My machines are mainly workstation to do simple tasks like Web
>> browsing, e-mails, watch videos, newsgroups in Pan and tin, chat/IM, a
>> simple private server, etc. I recall using 64-bit requires more
>> libraries or something and lack some stuff (e.g., Adobe Flash).
>>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> I use the i686 kernel for my AMD Athlon 64

How come not amd64 kernel? Any reasons?
--
"The little ant at its hole is full of courage." --African
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi(a)earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant(a)zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
From: Andrew Halliwell on 20 Apr 2008 04:11
Aragorn <aragorn(a)chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
>> Are there any advantages and disadvantages between 686 and amd64 beside
>> being able to use more memory which I doubt I am going to (2 GB is
>> enough).
>
> Well, the /AMD64/ kernels are more likely to contain some processor-specific
> code optimizations than a generic /i686/ kernel,

There's a bit more to it than that....
x86-64 is more than just a wider address bus, it also contains a shedload
more cpu instructions, such as SSE3, iirc. There're also a lot more
registers available in 64bit mode. Which means less fetching from RAM during
calculations.

These enhancements may (in some situations) make it faster...
But I think the general consensus is, speed is generally slightly slower
because 64 bit applications tend to be slightly bigger due to the extended
instruction set and data-width taking more memory/disk space.

If you don't need more than 4gig of RAM, chances are, you're fine in 32 bit
mode, and may even be slightly better off, performance wise.

--
| spike1(a)freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
From: Hadron on 20 Apr 2008 07:21

Andrew Halliwell <spike1(a)ponder.sky.com> writes:

> Aragorn <aragorn(a)chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
>>> Are there any advantages and disadvantages between 686 and amd64 beside
>>> being able to use more memory which I doubt I am going to (2 GB is
>>> enough).
>>
>> Well, the /AMD64/ kernels are more likely to contain some processor-specific
>> code optimizations than a generic /i686/ kernel,
>
> There's a bit more to it than that....
> x86-64 is more than just a wider address bus, it also contains a shedload
> more cpu instructions, such as SSE3, iirc. There're also a lot more
> registers available in 64bit mode. Which means less fetching from RAM during
> calculations.
>
> These enhancements may (in some situations) make it faster...
> But I think the general consensus is, speed is generally slightly slower
> because 64 bit applications tend to be slightly bigger due to the extended
> instruction set and data-width taking more memory/disk space.

This was hotly contested by some in comp.os.linux.advocacy but is
effectively correct. I saw no speed improvement in 64 bit over 32 bit
and just suffered from a far less stable system.

>
> If you don't need more than 4gig of RAM, chances are, you're fine in 32 bit
> mode, and may even be slightly better off, performance wise.

And certain things like flash do not work properly.

See:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/1f5d987c45c9499c

It is however getting better.

--
<wolfgang> the problem with the 'go find a real girl' admonition is
that so few of them actually have naked transformation
sequences
<reality> Dude, my girlfriend changes like four times a day
 |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2
Prev: wanted: a video capture card - not RF/OTA/cable
Next: Hardware recommendations for a newbie.