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From: Kyle Andrews on 15 Jul 2008 10:42
Hi,

I'm trying to follow the user guide chapter on programming in USERRPL
but I'm getting stuck on entering the return character(red shift . ).
The book implies this will just happen if I press the key, but doing
so just creates an extra line. I've tried entering it through the
chars menu, but that did not show up either. I know this is really
basic, but I have just spent the last half hour trying to find out how
to do it. Is the manual just telling me its good formatting to insert
a new line because it certainly doesn't look that way from the
program? However, when I run it, it works without the return symbol,
it works. Still, I'd like to know if that is just a deprecated feature
or something else which would make it work if I were to make a more
complicated program.

The example I'm looking at is on Page 21-22 of the HP 50's user
guide.

Thanks for your help!
- Kyle
From: mnhollinger on 15 Jul 2008 13:25
On Jul 15, 10:42 am, Kyle Andrews <Kyle.C.Andr...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to follow the user guide chapter on programming in USERRPL
> but I'm getting stuck on entering the return character(red shift . ).
> The book implies this will just happen if I press the key, but doing
> so just creates an extra line. I've tried entering it through the
> chars menu, but that did not show up either. I know this is really
> basic, but I have just spent the last half hour trying to find out how
> to do it. Is the manual just telling me its good formatting to insert
> a new line because it certainly doesn't look that way from the
> program? However, when I run it, it works without the return symbol,
> it works. Still, I'd like to know if that is just a deprecated feature
> or something else which would make it work if I were to make a more
> complicated program.
>
> The example I'm looking at is on Page 21-22 of the HP 50's user
> guide.
>
> Thanks for your help!
> - Kyle

It's okay dude, chill out! The return character is similiar to a
carriage
return in a computer (as stated in the manual). The character is
used to add multiple lines within a string. If you wanted to input
multiple values at the prompt for a program similar to the one on
page 21-22 and those values ran off the screen, you could use the
return character (right shift) and start a second line.
From: Virgil on 15 Jul 2008 17:21
In article
<c076ff36-7f9e-45fd-8526-bb66b9626dc1(a)59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Kyle Andrews <Kyle.C.Andrews(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to follow the user guide chapter on programming in USERRPL
> but I'm getting stuck on entering the return character(red shift . ).
> The book implies this will just happen if I press the key, but doing
> so just creates an extra line. I've tried entering it through the
> chars menu, but that did not show up either. I know this is really
> basic, but I have just spent the last half hour trying to find out how
> to do it. Is the manual just telling me its good formatting to insert
> a new line because it certainly doesn't look that way from the
> program? However, when I run it, it works without the return symbol,
> it works. Still, I'd like to know if that is just a deprecated feature
> or something else which would make it work if I were to make a more
> complicated program.
>
> The example I'm looking at is on Page 21-22 of the HP 50's user
> guide.
>
> Thanks for your help!
> - Kyle

To enter a return character, rather that an actual return,
press ALPHA before you press return ( ALPHA red-shift . ).
From: John H Meyers on 15 Jul 2008 17:44
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:42:59 -0500, Kyle Andrews wrote:

> The example I'm looking at is on Page "21-22" [PDF page 669 of 887]
> of the HP 50's user's guide.

Program (deliberately mis-coded, as the manual further explains):

\<< "Enter a: " {"@:a: " {2 0} V }
INPUT OBJ\-> \-> a \<< '2*a^2+3' \>> \>>

Except that where "@" appears above,
it should actually be a "newline" character.

In this case, the newline character is within a string,
so the compiler treats it literally,
rather than as "whitespace between words."

Despite the manual's illustration,
where the newline character is printed as a graphic symbol,
the editor within the calculator instead just terminates the line
"invisibly," and continues displaying what follows on the next line,
as previously discussed. Despite that difference in "what you see,"
"what you get" is still the same thing, if you have inserted
the newline character where it belongs.

Once you have finished editing, however, if you look
at the stack display, showing the completed program,
it is likely to show the exact same graphic symbol
which was printed in the manual,
pretty much confirming the fact just stated, no?

> However, when I run it, it works without the return symbol

Yes, it's a perfect example of something which was completely unnecessary,
in this case, despite your having been instructed to do it --
which of course never happens anywhere else in real life :)

When I post programs which really do need
a newline character embedded in a string,
I often create that character at slight extra programming expense,
e.g. via 10 CHR, rather than post it in a way which can cause
such a confusion, or leave any chance for mistake
when actually entering on the calculator.

HP wasn't concerned with any chance for mistake in _this_ example, however,
because it makes no difference whether you insert the newline or not :)

By the way, to even more easily "fix" the original program,
just remove one set of \<< \>> around '2*a^2+3'
instead of following HP's idea to insert EVAL or \->NUM,
thus illustrating even more unnecessary suggestions from HP.

Why the "HP tradition" of bad programming examples in user manuals?
Perhaps it makes us feel better when we can so easily
write much better programs ourselves :)

[r->] [OFF]
From: John H Meyers on 15 Jul 2008 17:48
Isn't "Return" (right-shifted "period")
the same in "Alpha" or non-Alpha mode, on all HP48/49/50?

[r->] [OFF]
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