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From: bi241 on 19 Jan 2007 01:40

got the AWLL5025 from local Frys for $19 + tax. The survey site
software detects a total 6 networks in my ghetto neighborhood, my
WRT54G running DD-WRT in client mode with 100mW of TX-power and 9dBi
ruber duck omni can do no better...

Netstumbler works with this adapter but cannot detect SSID of some
stations, Cain&Abel do all...

i gave my brother the PCI version of this RaLink-based adapter, the
AWLH5025 PCI which i also paid $19, and it can see more networks than
his D-Link DWL-G520M MIMO PCI, which he returned to CompUSA for $100
back

heck... i even bough the Atheros-based AWLH4030 PCI, paid $14 at Frys,
that can run Commview for WiFi.

oh and by the way, wireshark. formely ethereal, says the TX-power of
this card is 100mW!!!

cheers

miso(a)sushi.com wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > miso(a)sushi.com hath wroth:
> >
> > >Like I need another wifi product, I got this usb wifi at Fry's for
> > >hacking (in the true sense of the word) purposes.
> > >
> > >The FCC links are
> > >https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=597731&native_or_pdf=pdf
> > >https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=597732&native_or_pdf=pdf
> > >https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=597733&native_or_pdf=pdf
> > >https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=597734&native_or_pdf=pdf
> > >https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=597740&native_or_pdf=pdf
> > >
> > >I have no idea if these links are for my session only or will always
> > >call up this product.
> >
> > The links work just fine. They're assorted photos and data for a
> > Gemtek USB 802.11g wireless client. It's a dual antenna (diversity)
> > system, where one of the antennas is external and the other is on the
> > circuit board. The FCC Data mumbles MIMO, but I don't think so.
> >
> > >For some reason, it doesn't show up when you
> > >search for the FCC ID, which is MXF-U940930G
> >
> > That's because the FCC ID search page has been broken since it was
> > introduced.
> >
> > >However, if you search for the manufacturers ID (MXF), then show all
> > >items, this model shows up eventually. I set up the search to display
> > >100 at a time, then used the search feature in the browser to find the
> > >link.
> >
> > Yep. That's exactly what I do.
> >
> > I have no experience with the Gemtek USB client. Sorry.
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> I plugged it into my x64 system and it found a driver. [The Airlink 101
> items I've bought thus far have had 64 drivers to my amazement.]
> Netstumbler can't use it. The supplied site survey software works.
> I'll have to test it on my own system since all my neighbors have
> turned on encryption. [That wasn't always the case. ;-)]
>
> Next up is to put a small RF connector on it. [The B mode is 50mw. Not
> too shabby.]

From: Jeff Liebermann on 19 Jan 2007 02:34
bi241(a)scn.org hath wroth:

>got the AWLL5025 from local Frys for $19 + tax. The survey site
>software detects a total 6 networks in my ghetto neighborhood, my
>WRT54G running DD-WRT in client mode with 100mW of TX-power and 9dBi
>ruber duck omni can do no better...
>
>Netstumbler works with this adapter but cannot detect SSID of some
>stations, Cain&Abel do all...
>
>i gave my brother the PCI version of this RaLink-based adapter, the
>AWLH5025 PCI which i also paid $19, and it can see more networks than
>his D-Link DWL-G520M MIMO PCI, which he returned to CompUSA for $100
>back
>
>heck... i even bough the Atheros-based AWLH4030 PCI, paid $14 at Frys,
>that can run Commview for WiFi.
>
>oh and by the way, wireshark. formely ethereal, says the TX-power of
>this card is 100mW!!!

Which one? The spec sheet says that the AWLL5025 belches +13dBm
(20mw) for 802.11g and +17dBm (50mw) for 802.11b.
<http://www.airlink101.com/products/awll5025.html>

The AWLH4030 PCI is about the same at 10-14dBm (10-25mw) for 802.11g
and +18dBm (63mw) for 802.11b.
<http://www.airlink101.com/products/awlh4030.html>

So it is written, so it must be.

Wireshark and Wi-Fi Hopper both claim my HP laptops Broadcom something
MiniPCI card puts out 1300mw. What's happening is the NDIS5 function
call that returns the tx power from the driver is returning garbage.




--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: bi241 on 19 Jan 2007 13:29
oh, i mean the USB AWLL5025 card and the PCI AWLH5025 too, wireshark
won't return the TX-power value for the AWLH4030 PCI, the program also
notes that the accuracy of the returned values solely depend on the
card's drivers

so the broadcom miniPCI driver says it's got 1300mW... but why 1300mW
and not 3100mW? well, i have another theory beside thinking garbage
values being returned..

1300mW is about 31dBm!!! and i dont see why wifi cards cannot have
exactly that much of TX power. the FCC part 15 states that the limit
for 2.4GHz non-channel-hopping radios is 1000mW (or 30dBm) provided it
is attached to an antenna of 6dBi gain or less.... and for every 3dBi
increase in antenna gain, the TX power has to be reduced by 1dBm.
nothing further about the variations of radios+antennas
configuration...

but here comes the creative thinking.. from there, one may deductively
conclude that if the radio is permanently attached to a 3dbi antenna or
less, then its maximum TX power can be legally increased to 31dBi!!!

i suspect that notebooks manufactures been doing this with their OEM
wifi cards, especially with those miniPCIs, to keep their customers
happy.... of course, those cards are not intended for desktop use,
obviously, never to be sold as a part of a "highpower wardriving kit",
or to be sold seperately at all, even if they are hard coded to a
specific channel within the 2.4GHz spectrum

the wireless networking section at Frys, compared to other sections,
has the most returned items from pissed off customer who bought
brand-name wifi devices that put out 30mW... lol

cheers


Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> >oh and by the way, wireshark. formely ethereal, says the TX-power of
> >this card is 100mW!!!
>
> Which one? The spec sheet says that the AWLL5025 belches +13dBm
> (20mw) for 802.11g and +17dBm (50mw) for 802.11b.
> <http://www.airlink101.com/products/awll5025.html>
>
> The AWLH4030 PCI is about the same at 10-14dBm (10-25mw) for 802.11g
> and +18dBm (63mw) for 802.11b.
> <http://www.airlink101.com/products/awlh4030.html>
>
> So it is written, so it must be.
>
> Wireshark and Wi-Fi Hopper both claim my HP laptops Broadcom something
> MiniPCI card puts out 1300mw. What's happening is the NDIS5 function
> call that returns the tx power from the driver is returning garbage.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

From: Jeff Liebermann on 19 Jan 2007 21:45
bi241(a)scn.org hath wroth:

>so the broadcom miniPCI driver says it's got 1300mW... but why 1300mW
>and not 3100mW? well, i have another theory beside thinking garbage
>values being returned..

The garbage values theory was what the developers at Wi-Fi Hopper
responded with when I bug reported the problem. I've seen the same
bogus power report with other boards and drivers.

>1300mW is about 31dBm!!! and i dont see why wifi cards cannot have
>exactly that much of TX power. the FCC part 15 states that the limit
>for 2.4GHz non-channel-hopping radios is 1000mW (or 30dBm) provided it
>is attached to an antenna of 6dBi gain or less.... and for every 3dBi
>increase in antenna gain, the TX power has to be reduced by 1dBm.
>nothing further about the variations of radios+antennas
>configuration...

I don't want to get into interpreting FCC 15.247. The maximum power
output is 1 watt. Unfortunatly, they don't say where they measure
this 1 watt. It could be at the transmitter, or at the antenna. Hard
to tell. The common interpretation is 1 watt maximum at the antenna
with a 6dBi omni antenna. If you lower the gain of the antenna, you
cannot increase the power output to compensate. It would have made
much more sense for the FCC to specific EIRP (Effective isotropic
reference radiated power).

>but here comes the creative thinking.. from there, one may deductively
>conclude that if the radio is permanently attached to a 3dbi antenna or
>less, then its maximum TX power can be legally increased to 31dBi!!!

No. Or at least no according to several testing labs that submit FCC
Part 15 type certification reports. Nice try.

Incidentally, if you really want high power in a laptop, see:
<http://www.ubnt.com/products.php4>

>i suspect that notebooks manufactures been doing this with their OEM
>wifi cards, especially with those miniPCIs, to keep their customers
>happy.... of course, those cards are not intended for desktop use,
>obviously, never to be sold as a part of a "highpower wardriving kit",
>or to be sold seperately at all, even if they are hard coded to a
>specific channel within the 2.4GHz spectrum

I like conspiracy theories but not this time. Linux utilities report
the correct power output from the same cards that Windoze reports
garbage.

>the wireless networking section at Frys, compared to other sections,
>has the most returned items from pissed off customer who bought
>brand-name wifi devices that put out 30mW... lol

That's one reason why I don't buy at Fry's.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: miso on 19 Jan 2007 23:23

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> bi241(a)scn.org hath wroth:
>
> >so the broadcom miniPCI driver says it's got 1300mW... but why 1300mW
> >and not 3100mW? well, i have another theory beside thinking garbage
> >values being returned..
>
> The garbage values theory was what the developers at Wi-Fi Hopper
> responded with when I bug reported the problem. I've seen the same
> bogus power report with other boards and drivers.
>
> >1300mW is about 31dBm!!! and i dont see why wifi cards cannot have
> >exactly that much of TX power. the FCC part 15 states that the limit
> >for 2.4GHz non-channel-hopping radios is 1000mW (or 30dBm) provided it
> >is attached to an antenna of 6dBi gain or less.... and for every 3dBi
> >increase in antenna gain, the TX power has to be reduced by 1dBm.
> >nothing further about the variations of radios+antennas
> >configuration...
>
> I don't want to get into interpreting FCC 15.247. The maximum power
> output is 1 watt. Unfortunatly, they don't say where they measure
> this 1 watt. It could be at the transmitter, or at the antenna. Hard
> to tell. The common interpretation is 1 watt maximum at the antenna
> with a 6dBi omni antenna. If you lower the gain of the antenna, you
> cannot increase the power output to compensate. It would have made
> much more sense for the FCC to specific EIRP (Effective isotropic
> reference radiated power).
>
> >but here comes the creative thinking.. from there, one may deductively
> >conclude that if the radio is permanently attached to a 3dbi antenna or
> >less, then its maximum TX power can be legally increased to 31dBi!!!
>
> No. Or at least no according to several testing labs that submit FCC
> Part 15 type certification reports. Nice try.
>
> Incidentally, if you really want high power in a laptop, see:
> <http://www.ubnt.com/products.php4>
>
> >i suspect that notebooks manufactures been doing this with their OEM
> >wifi cards, especially with those miniPCIs, to keep their customers
> >happy.... of course, those cards are not intended for desktop use,
> >obviously, never to be sold as a part of a "highpower wardriving kit",
> >or to be sold seperately at all, even if they are hard coded to a
> >specific channel within the 2.4GHz spectrum
>
> I like conspiracy theories but not this time. Linux utilities report
> the correct power output from the same cards that Windoze reports
> garbage.
>
> >the wireless networking section at Frys, compared to other sections,
> >has the most returned items from pissed off customer who bought
> >brand-name wifi devices that put out 30mW... lol
>
> That's one reason why I don't buy at Fry's.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Actually, what is returned at Fry's is handy to know. If there are lots
of returns, try something else. I know those on this usenet group are
Linksys fans, but most of what is returned to Fry's is Linksys.

If I think there are going to be problems with something, I always go
to Fry's because they will take back anything.

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