Good RAID for New Desktop Machine?
in [Storage]
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From: Maxim S. Shatskih on 10 Apr 2008 23:21 > > I run the Adaptec SCSI card > > > (160MB/s, the one with Windows driver "adpu160m") > > That narrows it down quite a bit, doesn't it. > Almost as good as naming the model number. Adaptec 29160, PCI\VEN_9005&DEV_0080&SUBSYS_E2A09005&REV_02 -- Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP StorageCraft Corporation maxim(a)storagecraft.com http://www.storagecraft.com
From: adf on 11 Apr 2008 08:49 > software or environment or fumble-fingers. IMHO, since > the HD is one > of the most reliable pieces of a PC, RAID-1 has very > little value > for a home. I disagree. I've had home PCs since 1987, and in that time the disks have consistently been the least reliable components, and i've that experience with a bunch of brands -- Seagate, WD, Maxtor, Fujitsu, even now-dead brands like Conner and Micropolis (I used SCSI during much of 90s). I've used RAID1 in my home PC for about 4 yrs. now. I agree wholeheartedly with your advice that it's no replacement for backups, which I know people (myself included) can get lazy about when they know they have that mirror.
From: Cydrome Leader on 11 Apr 2008 11:41 In comp.arch.storage Franc Zabkar <fzabkar(a)iinternode.on.net> wrote: > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:12:28 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader > <presence(a)MUNGEpanix.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: > >>In comp.arch.storage Franc Zabkar <fzabkar(a)iinternode.on.net> wrote: > >>> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:41:36 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader >>> <presence(a)MUNGEpanix.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: > >>>>This card didn't even exist 4 years ago. >>> >>> Product Reviews - Hard disks - Adaptec Serial ATA RAID 2410SA: >>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/50553/adaptec-serial-ata-raid-2410sa.html >> >>a 2420sa isn't a 2410sa, kind of like how 3 isn't equal to 7 > > I was addressing your misinformation, not your model preference, kind > of like how 2008 - 2004 = 4. Maybe the 2420SA is a good card, I > wouldn't know, but I do know that the 2410SA is at least 4 years old. Let's think about this for a minute. This post started when somebody asked what sort of raid card might be good to use. I suggested a modern and good card. Then somebody pipes up about some old card they claims sucks for 900 reasons, then they finaly admit they never used the card long enough to know anything about it. Of course, none of this is relevant to the 2420sa I suggested. I even asked for people to name problems with that card, and nobody was able to come up with anything at all, except for stories that keep changing about a 2410 card.
From: Torbjorn Lindgren on 11 Apr 2008 13:02 Arno Wagner <me(a)privacy.net> wrote: >In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih ><maxim(a)storagecraft.com> wrote: >>> > I run the Adaptec SCSI card (160MB/s, the one with Windows driver >>> > "adpu160m") for 8 years or so. No issues. >>> >>> The problem with Adaptec is not that all their products are bad. >> Thanks. For me, this really means - bad products. >Indeed. My take also. AOL, they've had products all over the map and the less said about their early RAID products the better. >>> All are expensive though > >> Yes. LSI/Tekram controller (Windows driver "sym_u3") is much >> cheaper and also works OK. > >I have heard good things about 3ware under Linux, but was too >cheap to get one so far. We also have some 8-way Arceas at >work (als under Linux) that are really fast and reliable. Only >downside is that you need to patch the driver into the kernel >manually. FYI I found the earlier 3wares to not perform especially well under Linux though the later drivers made them somewhat less painfull, never tried them under Windows (though the benchmarks I've suggests their Windows driver is much better). With lots of tweaking (documented by 3ware) you can get them to go fast on streaming (just add very large readahead) but nothing seems to help with small accesses. It's possible that the latest generations card (only tried up to 9500) with latest firmware (only available on the new cards) might solve this, there's some hints in the release notes, but I have no intention to put money into testing it. The Areca cards on the other works very well under Linux and is supported under most recent distributions and Areca has drivers for many older ones. Only tried the latest generation but it seems to be rock solid cards and the standalone web server rocks... Similarly I have *no* experience with modern Adaptec RAID controllers, but after the consistently crappy controllers they've pushed on the world for a long period there's no way I'll given them a second chance (well, probably fourth or fifth chance but who is counting). Heck, they started their RAID line with buying out DPT, I consider DPT's only redeeming feature that they were the first with Linux drivers?, performance was far from stellar. OTOH, I see that Adaptec seem to own ICP Vortex now, though the cards seems to be different from Adaptec's own, I know they used to have a decent reputation even if I've never even seen a card. Perhaps Adaptec finally taken out their DPT code base and given it the burial it long needed? :-) On the LSI side I've used the SCSI and SAS models (though only with SAS disks), even before they bought Mylex they were much faster than Adaptec and I have a feeling the newer cards are either running Mylex derived firmware (IIRC they support both types of on-disk formats) or they picked up some tricks from them... Mylex used to win a lot of comparisons back when, to the point where some major big providers allowed you to special-order them to comply with the requirement that you could buy the configuration they benchmarked :-) For a desktop machine the various built-in host RAID seems to work well (now!), but so do the OS built-in ones.
From: Franc Zabkar on 11 Apr 2008 18:15
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:24:45 +1000, Franc Zabkar <fzabkar(a)iinternode.on.net> put finger to keyboard and composed: >On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:41:11 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader ><presence(a)MUNGEpanix.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: > >>In comp.arch.storage Franc Zabkar <fzabkar(a)iinternode.on.net> wrote: >>> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:12:28 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader >>> <presence(a)MUNGEpanix.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: >>> >>>>In comp.arch.storage Franc Zabkar <fzabkar(a)iinternode.on.net> wrote: >>> >>>>> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:41:36 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader >>>>> <presence(a)MUNGEpanix.com> put finger to keyboard and composed: >>> >>>>>>This card didn't even exist 4 years ago. >>>>> >>>>> Product Reviews - Hard disks - Adaptec Serial ATA RAID 2410SA: >>>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/50553/adaptec-serial-ata-raid-2410sa.html >>>> >>>>a 2420sa isn't a 2410sa, kind of like how 3 isn't equal to 7 >>> >>> I was addressing your misinformation, not your model preference, kind >>> of like how 2008 - 2004 = 4. Maybe the 2420SA is a good card, I >>> wouldn't know, but I do know that the 2410SA is at least 4 years old. >> >>Let's think about this for a minute. >> >>This post started when somebody asked what sort of raid card might be good >>to use. >> >>I suggested a modern and good card. Then somebody pipes up about some old >>card they claims sucks for 900 reasons, then they finaly admit they never >>used the card long enough to know anything about it. >> >>Of course, none of this is relevant to the 2420sa I suggested. >> >>I even asked for people to name problems with that card, and nobody was >>able to come up with anything at all, except for stories that keep >>changing about a 2410 card. Well, I can see both sides of the argument. I understand that people may be turned off by a particular manufacturer or vendor as a result of a bad product or bad support. If it's a case of bad support, then it makes sense not to go back to that supplier in the future. However, if it's an issue with a particular product, then I'd suspect that all manufacturers have produced at least one dud at some time or other. Anyone who has ever been burnt by a Pinto would be hesitant to recommend another Ford, but if you were to stay away from all manufacturers of storage products on the basis of past experience, then you wouldn't have any products to choose from. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |