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From: John Doue on 23 Apr 2008 03:10
G.G.Willikers wrote:
> John Doue wrote:
>> G.G.Willikers wrote:
>>> Richard Carpenter wrote:
>>>> "haligonab" <stevieb(a)SPAMNOTiglou.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ho4n049egatqalslav5qlssv62mirkpmre(a)4ax.com...
>>>>> Behringer ADA8000On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:04:43 -0400, "G.G.Willikers"
>>>>> <noone(a)athome.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> haligonab wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:46:47 -0400, "G.G.Willikers"
>>>>>>> <noone(a)athome.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> haligonab wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apologies for my ignorance. I've been building my own desktops
>>>>>>>>> for 10
>>>>>>>>> years, but I've been told that laptops are different beasts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just inherited a 5-year-old Toshiba A15-S127 from a friend. It
>>>>>>>>> appears that the hard drive (original Toshiba) has given up the
>>>>>>>>> ghost.
>>>>>>>>> When we booted it up, it ran a full scandisk (to my friend's
>>>>>>>>> surprise)
>>>>>>>>> and corrected all errors and ran flawlessly for 3 hours. When we
>>>>>>>>> rebooted it couldn't access the hard drive. He said his son had
>>>>>>>>> dropped it more than once. I assume that the HD has been
>>>>>>>>> damaged, as
>>>>>>>>> it displayed new errors when scandisk ran again. And again.
>>>>>>>>> Then I got
>>>>>>>>> the "a disk read error has occurred" message over and over. Now
>>>>>>>>> all I
>>>>>>>>> get is the Toshiba splash screen and a blinking cursor followed
>>>>>>>>> by a
>>>>>>>>> blank screen. Hmm... now the "a disk read error has occurred"
>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>> is back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW, I tried booting from an XP install disk. I got it to boot
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> but it crashed during the system scan. Now it won't boot at all.
>>>>>>>>> That's got me wondering if the IDE connector on the board could be
>>>>>>>>> damaged? I can hear both the HDD and combo drives spin up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd rather not throw money at this if it seems to be a mobo
>>>>>>>>> problem,
>>>>>>>>> but I wouldn't mind investing in a new hard drive. Any thoughts
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> folks might offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>> Does it boot to BIOS? Does it display any problems while in BIOS?
>>>>>>>> Does BIOS detect the CD ROM everytime you boot?
>>>>>>>> Reseat memory. reseat the CD rom. If it took a fall the CDrom,
>>>>>>>> while not
>>>>>>>> exactly fragile, could be damaged.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This could help your project along:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptops/ToshibaA15/SatelliteA15_laptop_disassembly_1.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi GG,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My main problem is ignorance of laptops in general, but I'm
>>>>>>> learning.
>>>>>>> I'm used to the desktop boot screen and hitting the delete key to
>>>>>>> access BIOS. I'm not seeing anything familiar in this regard. A
>>>>>>> friend
>>>>>>> suggested trying the function keys. F2 allowed me to select the boot
>>>>>>> device from the Toshiba splash screen. I can now boot to my XP
>>>>>>> install
>>>>>>> disk without fail, leading me to be more confident that this is
>>>>>>> just a
>>>>>>> HD failure. I ordered a WD 120gb IDE drive from Newegg last night.
>>>>>>> With any luck that will be all I need other than maxing the RAM and
>>>>>>> adding wireless LAN.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, thanks much for the disassembly link, though I dearly hope I
>>>>>>> won't need it. That's a whole lot more work than I care to get into
>>>>>>> right now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks to all you folks for your thoughts and suggestions. I think I
>>>>>>> got the nudges I needed to start moving forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would definitely split that 120GB up. With a drive that size I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> also set the MY Documents folder on to a separate partition. That
>>>>>> way if
>>>>>> your OS has a some catastrophe, you still have all your lovely
>>>>>> pictures
>>>>>> and such.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Been doing that for years, but it's good that you mentioned it for
>>>>> others who might not have thought of it. Saved my bacon on more than
>>>>> one occasion. Plus I also back-up to an external USB drive. Redundency
>>>>> is your friend. Thanks again!
>>>>
>>>> The external backup is definitely a necessity, but I can't say I
>>>> necessarily agree with the *need* to split the hard drive into
>>>> multiple partitions. I have owned a great many computers over the
>>>> years (and built even more) and several laptops, and the only times
>>>> I ever had hard drive problems involved a full crash. It wouldn't
>>>> have mattered whether I had one or ten partitions. I've never had
>>>> just one partition on a multi-partitioned drive fail on me, leaving
>>>> the other partition(s) on the same drive intact. Besides, even if
>>>> data files are moved to a second partition, if a partition *were* to
>>>> fail, who's to say it wouldn't be the data partition? Redundancy and
>>>> external backups are the only ways to protect your data. Multiple
>>>> partitions on a single drive offers neither.
>>>>
>>>> I'm all in favor of multiple partitions for organizational and/or
>>>> security reasons, but it just doesn't seem to offer much in the way
>>>> of protection against hardware or system failure.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I really wasnt really referring to catastrophic drive faliure
>>> (Physical), but more along the lines of seperating the OS from the
>>> files people hold near and dear. Writing an image file for a 30 gig
>>> OS partition is far easier than writing an image file for a 300 gig
>>> partition. Thats where I was going with that.
>>
>> Although there will never be one definitive answer on the subject,
>> common sense demands that you use the same approach in storing data as
>> in storing any personal items or files: organizing storage according
>> to rational criterias makes things easier to find, limits the risks of
>> destructing or damage and more generally, makes your life easier.
>>
>> Partitioning will not limit the physical risk to a drive but will
>> clearly, as you state, facilitate backups (call it imaging if you
>> like), and limit risks of accidental deletions: directories can get
>> easily deleted, but partitions are not things you mess with on a daily
>> basis.
>>
>> Finally, when something goes wrong when installing or uninstalling a
>> program, when a software crash happens, partitioning limits the extent
>> of the damage.
>>
>> I believe in having one partition for the OS, one for the programs,
>> and one for the data.
>>
>> The only draw back of partitioning is, first it requires a minimum of
>> understanding of what you are doing, and with Vista, the initial
>> partitioning can be difficult to modify. Second, it requires an
>> organized mind and some discipline to be of real benefit.
>>
>> Comparing the way people *organize* their garages will probably tell
>> you a lot about the way they store their data ...
>>
>
> Past experience with repeat customers, with little or no comprehension
> of file organization, restore points, or the ability to not open every
> email sent to their inbox, oh and a profound inability to comprehend
> that certain programs ( coffLimeWirecoff), are bad for your systems
> integrity, I have started setting users document files and settings on a
> separate partition. While this doesn't necessarily prevent that
> partition from infection or corruption, it does make my job easier in
> locating, isolating, and eliminating problems.
> I have come to the conclusion that instead of spending 5 minutes
> becoming educated about the mysteries of the magical internets box,
> would rather pay me $XX an hour to fix their problems every other month.
> While I'm not allergic to the income, it does tend to baffle me why
> certain people are comfortable shelling out that kind of money, when
> they really don't have to.
>
> I compare it to the way people maintain their cars. Some people take
> great care with their investment, while others couldn't care less where
> the oil goes, as long as the engine is still running.

You made my day! I am always amazed that most people buy tools, never
read the manual and do not try to understand how things work.
Admittedly, the learning curve with computers can be stiff, I remember
the day I could not believe there was a moving part in a hard disk ...
Hard should be hard, should not it? :=).

Of course, the default MS settings do not help any in this regard:
setting all programs in the same directory, and all "documents" in this
childish "My documents" folder is stupid. Most people actually do not
have the faintest idea where their data actually resides ... Amazing.

As long as your hourly income is in the $xx, your price is low,
considering the patience it takes, not so much to fix problems but to
make people understand what they should do!

Regards

--
John Doue
From: haligonab on 23 Apr 2008 21:17
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:22:14 -0400, "Richard Carpenter"
<rumbledor(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>"haligonab" <stevieb(a)SPAMNOTiglou.com> wrote in message
>news:ho4n049egatqalslav5qlssv62mirkpmre(a)4ax.com...
>> Behringer ADA8000On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:04:43 -0400, "G.G.Willikers"
>> <noone(a)athome.com> wrote:
>>
>>>haligonab wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:46:47 -0400, "G.G.Willikers" <noone(a)athome.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> haligonab wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apologies for my ignorance. I've been building my own desktops for 10
>>>>>> years, but I've been told that laptops are different beasts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just inherited a 5-year-old Toshiba A15-S127 from a friend. It
>>>>>> appears that the hard drive (original Toshiba) has given up the ghost.
>>>>>> When we booted it up, it ran a full scandisk (to my friend's surprise)
>>>>>> and corrected all errors and ran flawlessly for 3 hours. When we
>>>>>> rebooted it couldn't access the hard drive. He said his son had
>>>>>> dropped it more than once. I assume that the HD has been damaged, as
>>>>>> it displayed new errors when scandisk ran again. And again. Then I got
>>>>>> the "a disk read error has occurred" message over and over. Now all I
>>>>>> get is the Toshiba splash screen and a blinking cursor followed by a
>>>>>> blank screen. Hmm... now the "a disk read error has occurred" message
>>>>>> is back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I tried booting from an XP install disk. I got it to boot once
>>>>>> but it crashed during the system scan. Now it won't boot at all.
>>>>>> That's got me wondering if the IDE connector on the board could be
>>>>>> damaged? I can hear both the HDD and combo drives spin up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd rather not throw money at this if it seems to be a mobo problem,
>>>>>> but I wouldn't mind investing in a new hard drive. Any thoughts you
>>>>>> folks might offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>> Does it boot to BIOS? Does it display any problems while in BIOS?
>>>>> Does BIOS detect the CD ROM everytime you boot?
>>>>> Reseat memory. reseat the CD rom. If it took a fall the CDrom, while
>>>>> not
>>>>> exactly fragile, could be damaged.
>>>>>
>>>>> This could help your project along:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptops/ToshibaA15/SatelliteA15_laptop_disassembly_1.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi GG,
>>>>
>>>> My main problem is ignorance of laptops in general, but I'm learning.
>>>> I'm used to the desktop boot screen and hitting the delete key to
>>>> access BIOS. I'm not seeing anything familiar in this regard. A friend
>>>> suggested trying the function keys. F2 allowed me to select the boot
>>>> device from the Toshiba splash screen. I can now boot to my XP install
>>>> disk without fail, leading me to be more confident that this is just a
>>>> HD failure. I ordered a WD 120gb IDE drive from Newegg last night.
>>>> With any luck that will be all I need other than maxing the RAM and
>>>> adding wireless LAN.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, thanks much for the disassembly link, though I dearly hope I
>>>> won't need it. That's a whole lot more work than I care to get into
>>>> right now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all you folks for your thoughts and suggestions. I think I
>>>> got the nudges I needed to start moving forward.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>I would definitely split that 120GB up. With a drive that size I would
>>>also set the MY Documents folder on to a separate partition. That way if
>>>your OS has a some catastrophe, you still have all your lovely pictures
>>>and such.
>>
>>
>> Been doing that for years, but it's good that you mentioned it for
>> others who might not have thought of it. Saved my bacon on more than
>> one occasion. Plus I also back-up to an external USB drive. Redundency
>> is your friend. Thanks again!
>
>The external backup is definitely a necessity, but I can't say I necessarily
>agree with the *need* to split the hard drive into multiple partitions. I
>have owned a great many computers over the years (and built even more) and
>several laptops, and the only times I ever had hard drive problems involved
>a full crash. It wouldn't have mattered whether I had one or ten partitions.
>I've never had just one partition on a multi-partitioned drive fail on me,
>leaving the other partition(s) on the same drive intact. Besides, even if
>data files are moved to a second partition, if a partition *were* to fail,
>who's to say it wouldn't be the data partition? Redundancy and external
>backups are the only ways to protect your data. Multiple partitions on a
>single drive offers neither.
>
>I'm all in favor of multiple partitions for organizational and/or security
>reasons, but it just doesn't seem to offer much in the way of protection
>against hardware or system failure.


Agreed. My earliest desktops were partitioned to protect data against
Windows crashing (and my poor recovery skills). My later builds simply
employed a second hard drive. I still partitioned most large drives
for the reasons you state, but I seem to be getting away from that
lately.

In this case, I'm back to my earliest reasons for partitioning. I'd
like to use this laptop for remote audio recording and would prefer to
have a seperate virtual drive for data security. Of course, I'll back
up to a USB drive too.
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