Prev: Bus automation
Next: AKA gray asphalt - your messages are in the future?
From: Donk on 5 Apr 2008 18:10
On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:53:12 GMT, "Ricky Hunt" <rhunt22(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Donk" <don81846(a)verizon.netnot.valid> wrote in message
>news:o4fdv35u1vtbrp4llki61mmij32u6k751d(a)4ax.com...
>>
>> I posted a while back about problems getting my Yamaha PSR-510 to work
>> with Vista and Sonar 7. I never got it to work and and have decided to
>> give up and get a new keyboard.
>>
>> I looked at the M-Audio Oxygen 61 61-Key Mobile USB Controller. Guitar
>> Center has them for $170.
>
>I looked at the user's manual to the PSR-510
>(http://www.synthman.com/cgibin/x.cgi/yamaha/support/PSR510_Owners_Manual.pdf)
>and if you couldn't get it to work with Sonar you probably won't have any
>better luck with the Oxygen. Can you go back over what didn't work and why,
>what you tried, etc.? Let's get that one working before you plop down $170.
>

Hi Ricky,

I was literally on my way out to buy the Oxygen when I stopped to
check my messages and read your reply. I've had my PSR-510 for about
15 years and enjoy it. I don't really want to get another keyboard
unless the problem is that this one is not compatible with the
software. Maybe the soundcard in this new computer just isn't up to
the task and I'll have to replace it first.

I just bought this HP a6200n computer about 3 months ago and wish I'd
have paid a little closer attention to the details before giving up
the debit card no. In the past I've usually built my own computers and
have been able to choose the components to fit my needs.

I just tried with the UNO selected as the MIDI input device and
Microsoft GS Wavetable as the MIDI output device. Listening through
headphones plugged in my sound card there is a delay of about 1 second
between hitting a single note on the PSR-510 and hearing the sound
through the earphone. Playing a chord results in hearing a jumbled up
mess. I tried recording a few bars but it's impossible to get in time
with the metronome.

I've included my original message about not being able to get this
stuff to work and have added a few more details about my hardware.

I'm so happy to see that this group is not one that's spoiled by a few
troublemakers. I haven't been reading the group a lot but I have
browsed messages back to June 2003 and have not seen even one jerk.
Everyone seems so knowledgeable and so supportive of each other that
I'm almost reluctant to butt-in.

I'm thankful that you've noticed and are willing to help. I hope I
supplied enough information to clearly illustrate the problem.

Thank you,

Don


====== ORIGINAL MESSAGE ============

My "Stuff"

- HP a6200n computer
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5000+, 2.6 GHZ
- Realtek High Definition 8-channel audio, ALC 888S chipset
- Sound driver: rtkvhda.sys, 6.0.1.5548, 1/15/2008
- Vista Home Premium, 32 bit
- SONAR 7 Producer, SP1, Sp2
- MAudio Uno MIDI to USB (Dec, 2007 drivers)
- Yamaha PSR-510 keyboard
- Fender Stratocaster

I used to use this keyboard with a much earlier version of Cakewalk,
running on Win98, without any problems. I spent many happy hours with
no difficulty and a lot of enjoyment. But . . . (forgetting the Strat
for now) I can't get the above MIDI setup to work.

I fire Cakewalk up, select the UNO for MIDI In and Out and hit a note
on the keyboard. Everything is "swell" for the first 6 or 8 notes then
the next few notes cause a boooming, echoing sound unlike any
instrument in gemeral midi. After that there's a delay of 10 or 15
seconds between hitting a note and hearing the booming sound.

The keyboard doesn't have much in the way of MIDI options. You can
choose "Local", "MIDI Out" or both. You can select left and right
"Transmit Channels" from 1 to 16.

I've installed Sonar SP1 and Sp2 but they made no significant
difference.

I don't know if I've left out anything that might be needed to help me
except that I'm far from being a MIDI or Cakewalk expert.

If you can help I will be very grateful.
From: Steve L. on 5 Apr 2008 18:25
Donk <don81846(a)verizon.netnot.valid> thought it was ok to ask

> Realtek High Definition 8-channel audio, ALC 888S chipset
>THis is likely the culprit.

If your input monitoring you want low latency. Did you try ajusting
the latency in Sonar? Probably want it down around 3-10ms if possible.
and it may not be possible with that sound device
Also check to make sure your not monitoring woth the soundcard software
(ie: what you hear settng)
It almost sounds like you have a loop in the midi somewhere. make sure
your only going out from your keyboard. you should only need one cable.
What would really help you is to get a better sound card (Maudio 1296)
for about a hundred bucks. It has 2 ins and outs.. spdif.... midi in and
out some other stuff..
Even if it doesn't cure your problem you'll have much better sound.
From: Ricky Hunt on 5 Apr 2008 19:45
"Donk" <don81846(a)verizon.netnot.valid> wrote in message
news:unkfv31b6jh0daudcnc6agqhdgnnj42d7m(a)4ax.com...
>
> I'm thankful that you've noticed and are willing to help. I hope I
> supplied enough information to clearly illustrate the problem.

Good. I think we're on the road to you not having to purchase anything else.
What you're hearing (the 1 second delay) is called "latency". It's how long
it takes for the note to get from your keyboard through your soundcard and
to the synthesizer (whether it be MS synth or a softsynth or whatever).
First, you need to make sure you have drivers for the soundcard that are
capable of low latency. This means WDM or ASIO drivers (not the MME drivers
that used to ship with most MS systems). What kind of soundcard is it? Let's
find that out and then we'll see if we can find you some low latency
drivers. I see Steve L. has already mentioned it may be as simple as
lowering the "latency slider" (pushing it to the left) in Sonar's
Options/Audio menu. Push it all the way to the left. If it reads less than
8ms you should be fine. If not we might have to find other drivers and do
some tweaking of the buffers. This is where the latency is caused since most
stuff is stored in buffers and until that buffer is full all the data just
sits there. This can take anywhere from a couple of milliseconds to a second
or two. A couple of milliseconds is fine. But as you've discovered a second
makes playing in real-time impossible. So answer the soundcard question and
we'll go from there.

Ricky


From: Donk on 5 Apr 2008 22:23
On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:45:21 GMT, "Ricky Hunt" <rhunt22(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Donk" <don81846(a)verizon.netnot.valid> wrote in message
>news:unkfv31b6jh0daudcnc6agqhdgnnj42d7m(a)4ax.com...
>>
>> I'm thankful that you've noticed and are willing to help. I hope I
>> supplied enough information to clearly illustrate the problem.
>
>Good. I think we're on the road to you not having to purchase anything else.
>What you're hearing (the 1 second delay) is called "latency". It's how long
>it takes for the note to get from your keyboard through your soundcard and
>to the synthesizer (whether it be MS synth or a softsynth or whatever).
>First, you need to make sure you have drivers for the soundcard that are
>capable of low latency. This means WDM or ASIO drivers (not the MME drivers
>that used to ship with most MS systems). What kind of soundcard is it? Let's
>find that out and then we'll see if we can find you some low latency
>drivers. I see Steve L. has already mentioned it may be as simple as
>lowering the "latency slider" (pushing it to the left) in Sonar's
>Options/Audio menu. Push it all the way to the left. If it reads less than
>8ms you should be fine. If not we might have to find other drivers and do
>some tweaking of the buffers. This is where the latency is caused since most
>stuff is stored in buffers and until that buffer is full all the data just
>sits there. This can take anywhere from a couple of milliseconds to a second
>or two. A couple of milliseconds is fine. But as you've discovered a second
>makes playing in real-time impossible. So answer the soundcard question and
>we'll go from there.
>
>Ricky
>
Hi Ricky,

My soundcard info was burried in my previous message:

- Realtek High Definition 8-channel audio, ALC 888S chipset

I haven't had the thing open but it's aparantly not exactly a
soundcard but an onboard chipset as was the trend for the last ten
years.

When I select the WDM or ASIO driver modes I get the following
message:

"There are no devices for the current driver model on your system.
Please go to Options|Audio and choose a different driver model."

I've just reinstalled the latest Realtek drivers dated 3/11/08 but it
made no difference to Sonar. The readme file that came with the
drivers refers to an WDM driver but it looks like it's just for XP/2K,
not Vista. I think it's strange for Realtek to provide a WDM driver
for XP in the same install package but not one for Vista.

I found several references to something called "ASIO4ALL - Universal
ASIO Driver For WDM Audio"

http://www.asio4all.com/

I'm guessing that it won't work with this Realtek chipset but I'll
probably give it a try.

Thank you for helping.

Don
From: Sue Morton on 5 Apr 2008 22:32
Yes I have this same onboard sound module, it sounds pretty good but latency
is poor even on XP with WDM. You'll need a regulard soundcard to achieve a
lower latency.

A thread was started here recently for soundcard recommendations, see that
thread for more info.

My opinion:

Any of the M-Audio or Echo Audio cards are good choices. Some folk are
using E-Mu cards with success. A few are using Soundblaster Audigy cards
but not if they need low latency (most will move up to a "prosumer" card
sooner or later. The Audigy is a nice sounding card but the Creative Labs
drivers are very poor.)
--
Sue Morton

Donk wrote:
> I've just reinstalled the latest Realtek drivers dated 3/11/08 but it
> made no difference to Sonar. The readme file that came with the
> drivers refers to an WDM driver but it looks like it's just for XP/2K,
> not Vista. I think it's strange for Realtek to provide a WDM driver
> for XP in the same install package but not one for Vista.


First  |  Prev  |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Prev: Bus automation
Next: AKA gray asphalt - your messages are in the future?