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From: Al Dykes on 5 Apr 2008 08:40 In article <ft6tim$8jg$1(a)aioe.org>, Justin <Justin(a)NobecauseIhatespam.net> wrote: >So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV >camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I >have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a >Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9 >years old. >Stunning. >So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived. >Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next >time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the >2025 or thereabouts. >AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the >footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that >enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last >when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate? > What about magnetic fields? > >What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there, >filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a >few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners >that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)? > >Is that idea stupid? >Forget about cost for now. Make two and keep one off-site. IMO, the chance of a properly stored disk drive dying are down there with losing it in a house fire. Even if the chances are miniscule, it happens to *somebody*. -- Al Dykes News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising. - Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail
From: Al Dykes on 5 Apr 2008 08:48 In article <ft6v9t$ei7$1(a)aioe.org>, Justin <Justin(a)NobecauseIhatespam.net> wrote: >Rod Speed wrote: >> Justin <Justin(a)NobecauseIhatespam.net> wrote: >> >>> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current >>> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a >>> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and >>> stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. >>> There I was at 9 years old. >>> Stunning. >> >>> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived. >>> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the >>> next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be >>> the 2025 or thereabouts. >> >>> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would >>> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard >>> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible? >> >> Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises your chances. >> >>> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used? >> >> They last fine. >> >>> Will the magnetic information deteriorate? >> >> Nope. >> >>> What about magnetic fields? >> >> Same thing. >> >>> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there, >>> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a >>> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners >>> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)? >> >> Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping. >> >>> Is that idea stupid? >> >> Nope, very viable. >> >>> Forget about cost for now. >> >> > >Damn, that was fast! >Follow up questions... would using a laptop drive be a better idea >since they are designed to take a certain amount of abuse? > >Just speaking about a worst case scenario... how strong a magnetic field Unless you take the disk into the MRI exam with you, magnetic fields are no more a problem with an unused drive than they are for a drive inside your computer. As for shock, unpowered disks are more shock resistant than you think. Look you the detail spec sheet on the manufacturer's web site, you'll find 100Gs or more acceptable. Don't use a cheap safe. The cheap "2 hour" safe is made for saving paper documents. It works by chemical reaction in a fire. It soaks the papers with hot moisture that would probably kill the electronics on the disk. -- Al Dykes News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising. - Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail
From: Franc Zabkar on 5 Apr 2008 17:40 On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:01:15 -0400, Justin <Justin(a)NobecauseIhatespam.net> put finger to keyboard and composed: >So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV >camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I >have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a >Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9 >years old. >Stunning. >So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived. >Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. I wouldn't rely on tape, even in digital format, as this medium is vulnerable to mechanical damage. >So I'm guessing the next >time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the >2025 or thereabouts. Can you guarantee that equipment to read your tapes will still exist, or be repairable, in 2025? >AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the >footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that >enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last >when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate? > What about magnetic fields? > >What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there, >filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a >few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners >that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)? I recently tried to read an old Quantum 120MB HD that was working fine when I put it away in my cupboard many years ago. Now I'm seeing a whole bunch of read errors. >Is that idea stupid? >Forget about cost for now. I would make several archival copies in different formats. As new technology arrives and becomes cost effective (eg 50GB dual layer Blu-ray), I would migrate my old archives to the technology. If you have any analogue media, convert the contents to digital ASAP. I think your HDD idea is fine, but I wouldn't rely on it. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
From: iws on 5 Apr 2008 22:51 "Justin" <Justin(a)NobecauseIhatespam.net> wrote in message news:ft6tim$8jg$1(a)aioe.org... > So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV > camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I > have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a > Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9 > years old. > Stunning. > So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived. > Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next > time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the > 2025 or thereabouts. > AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the > footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that > enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last > when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate? > What about magnetic fields? > > What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there, > filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a > few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners > that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)? > > Is that idea stupid? > Forget about cost for now. I'm not sure I'd trust any mechanical gizmo after sitting for a couple of decades. What's wrong with recording to DVD's and recopying every few years. Migrate to new technology as it becomes established. For example, if and when Blue Ray becomes fully established, migrate to that. There will always be a lengthy transition to new technology and in many cases, the same device will be fully compatible with both old and new - e.g. CD/DVD writers. Many current Blue Ray writers will write to CD and DVD. Hell, you can still buy floppy drives that work in today's PC's and that technology is more than a quarter century old. Keep in mind that you're talking digital recording and copying with no real loss of information after many copies.
From: Justin on 6 Apr 2008 00:25
iws wrote: > "Justin" <Justin(a)NobecauseIhatespam.net> wrote in message > news:ft6tim$8jg$1(a)aioe.org... >> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV >> camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I >> have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a >> Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9 >> years old. >> Stunning. >> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived. >> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next >> time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the >> 2025 or thereabouts. >> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the >> footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that >> enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last >> when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate? >> What about magnetic fields? >> >> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there, >> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a >> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners >> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)? >> >> Is that idea stupid? >> Forget about cost for now. > > I'm not sure I'd trust any mechanical gizmo after sitting for a couple of > decades. What's wrong with recording to DVD's and recopying every few years. > Migrate to new technology as it becomes established. For example, if and > when Blue Ray becomes fully established, migrate to that. There will always > be a lengthy transition to new technology and in many cases, the same device > will be fully compatible with both old and new - e.g. CD/DVD writers. Many > current Blue Ray writers will write to CD and DVD. Hell, you can still buy > floppy drives that work in today's PC's and that technology is more than a > quarter century old. Keep in mind that you're talking digital recording and > copying with no real loss of information after many copies. > > I understand the whole "copy as time goes on" and you're correct, that is the best solution. But, as life goes on schedules get bitter and after a while that sort of thing slips through the cracks. I should change my air filter on the central air system. Its just "one of those things" that should get done, but never does. When I took a class trip in 1994 I took those 8mm tapes and stored them. I graduated high shcool in 1995, went to college and around 1999 I ran into a group of people from the trip. I promised I would convert all those tapes to VHS and we could all meet and have a "Europe 1994" party. What happened? Finals. Internship. Summer accelerated classes. Streaking. Personal issues. Dad's bypass. Basically life gets in the way of things that matter. In 2003 the same thing happened. I ran into the teacher who organized the trip back then. I said I would edit the tapes and convert them to DVD. Never happened. What DID happen? My Masters degree. More accelerated classes. A lousy job that sends me to horrible places. Fast forward again to February 2008. I run into the same teacher. Said the same thing, convert to DVD blah blah... I got a false start because Sony Vegas decided to putz out on me. I was reduced to Movie Maker. Didn't get done... What happened? My decision to get out of I.T. and into Accounting. Now for the next two years nothing but accounting classes starting mid April. So this time I got it done. I have all the edited DV files ready to by written to DVD. I also have the DV files saved to my archival hard drive and MiniDV. |