Man vs. Info: documenting the software
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From: Ivan Shmakov on 2 Feb 2010 22:34 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>>> "SM" == Sven Mascheck <mascheck(a)email.invalid> writes: >>>>> "IS" == Ivan Shmakov wrote: >>>>> "S" == Seebs <usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net> writes: S> I use about fifteen programs in which /foo<return> yields a search S> for foo. I am not very motivated to learn another interface... IS> Do you use / to search the Bash history as well? SM> Do you mean especially Seebs, or those who actually use set -o vi? ... I wonder, whether Vim will ever support anything to the effect of âset -o emacsâ? S> And you can type "man 2 read" and get basically the same S> behavior across a large number of essentially unrelated S> implementations. >> $ (for i in waterlily gray cylon earth theory th3 ip[...] ; do \ >> ssh "$i" LC_ALL=C man 2 read ; \ >> done) >> No manual entry for read in section 2 >> No manual entry for read in section 2 >> ivan@[...]'s password: [...] >> READ(2) Linux Programmer's Manual READ(2) >> [...] >> Linux 2007-11-15 READ(2) >> No manual entry for read in section 2 >> No manual entry for read in section 2 >> No manual entry for read in section 2 >> No manual entry for read in section 2 SM> What do you want to tell to us with that? 6 of your 7 Linux SM> systems don't have the development manpages installed? ;-) I wanted to note that the Man pages are there out of necessity, not because they're âstandardâ. [...] - -- FSF associate member #7257 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkto7rcACgkQMBO2oCMOM0q3ugCfUiCzGGeYkP2t34mVpDLov7J2 M9kAn1DWcpKXh6ZMFTMWGwgh046e/IcJ =Kz/r -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From: Sidney Lambe on 2 Feb 2010 22:40 On comp.unix.shell, Ivan Shmakov <ivan(a)main.uusia.org> wrote: [delete] > Subject: Re: Man vs. Info: documenting the software They both suck. I convert them to, or obtain them as, simple, one page HTML or plain text documents so that I can easily add notes to them. And use a script to do the same job as apropos does. Only the geeks at GNU could make learning how to use an application or utililty a double chore by creating the info browser, which takes a college course to learn to use. Sid
From: Ivan Shmakov on 2 Feb 2010 23:32 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>>> "SL" == Sidney Lambe <sidneylambe(a)nospam.invalid> writes: >>>>> "IS" == Ivan Shmakov <ivan(a)main.uusia.org> wrote: >> Subject: Re: Man vs. Info: documenting the software SL> They both suck. SL> I convert them to, or obtain them as, simple, one page HTML or SL> plain text documents Unfortunately, you're loosing the convenience of the index that way. E. g., when I need the description of, say, printf () from Info (libc), I type: i printf RET Now, I want the same from HTML. The browser's âsearchâ function will only work if the document is in a single HTML file, and having one also brings some drawbacks. Of course, one could switch to the âFunction indexâ page and do search from there, but it's nowhere as convenient âiâ. SL> so that I can easily add notes to them. What for? SL> And use a script to do the same job as apropos does. Namely? SL> Only the geeks at GNU could make learning how to use an application SL> or utililty a double chore by creating the info browser, which SL> takes a college course to learn to use. Huh? It takes only a semester to learn how to use the whole underlying Texinfo typesetting system! And the browser is much easier than that. - -- TeX user since c. 1999. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkto/GgACgkQMBO2oCMOM0oIqQCfeBMYaTxtofB97AKe+lK8Nh0E 1S8AoOv99CHLv3uaUvNBG5+C7b8zc5A1 =wI0i -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From: Seebs on 2 Feb 2010 23:49 On 2010-02-03, Ivan Shmakov <ivan(a)main.uusia.org> wrote: > S> Exactly. I can search for a word that I am sure would occur in the > S> *discussion* of a thing, without knowing what name the author would > S> have picked for the *heading*. > Exactly. And you can do the same with Info. Can I? I've never found a way, because the manual is broken up into nodes, and a search seems to only search the current node. > Don't you confuse the index with the table of contents here? > (Note also that both are distinct to Info menus.) I don't *think* so. > Indeed, the index shows the headings (see below for an example), > but not {\em just} the headings. > - --cut: (libc) Concept Index -- > * abort signal: Program Error Signals. > * aborting a program: Aborting a Program. Both of these are headings. If the discussion of "aborting a program" contained a word that wasn't indexed, searching the index wouldn't find it, but searching the whole document would. > The computers are somewhat different to the record stores, as > you can easily have the same record pointed from several > sections at once. If it's not in EVERY section, I still have the very real risk of looking in the wrong section and not finding it. And if it is, the sections are useless to me, because they aren't different from each other. There are things for which sectioned views of the world are nice, but there are times when I just want to search the whole document. -s -- Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
From: Seebs on 2 Feb 2010 23:51
On 2010-02-03, Ivan Shmakov <ivan(a)main.uusia.org> wrote: > ... I wonder, whether Vim will ever support anything to the > effect of ?set -o emacs?? Er, what? "set -o emacs" and "set -o vi" are shell commands, not editor commands. > I wanted to note that the Man pages are there out of necessity, > not because they're ?standard?. The way to show that something is not standard would be to show that the standard doesn't specify it, not to appeal to whether a particular system has it. Many systems lack many features which are clearly standardized. -s -- Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam(a)seebs.net http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated! |