OK to use inkjet paper in a laser printer?
in [Hardware]
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From: kony on 5 Apr 2008 18:39 On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:50:50 -0400, class_a <class_a(a)comcast.net> wrote: >kony wrote: > >> I regularly put coated inkjet paper through a couple of >> laser printers I have, specifically it's semi-gloss photo >> paper as this type has reasonable toner adherance but most >> importantly for my needs, this type of paper delaminates >> when soaked in a detergent solution (I use it to make PCB >> etching patterns using the toner transfer method, > >Wouldn't overhead projector transparencies that are designed to be >printed on with laser printers be easier for this purpose (less hassle >but probably more expensive than your current solution)? I've seen >these used before for PCB etching patterns. Something like >http://tinyurl.com/3l7o63 Overhead projector transparencies are better for finer pitch designs. Usually I just have a PCB house make anything like that, when the trace density is higher it makes more sense as you are more likely to need more vias and 2+ layers. For simplier circuits the toner transfer method works acceptibly, at low cost, and it's not much of a hassle to just put it in solution to soak for a few minutes. IMO, more of a hassle to have the screen and light for photoresist method, plus space dedicated to that equipment. I suppose if it were the only activity then space isn't so much of a factor but the amount of space all kinds of misc. things take up, adds up.
From: kony on 5 Apr 2008 18:49 On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:03:58 -0500, Tony <tonythebengaltiger(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>Actually, the properties that make a coated paper desirable >>for inkjet use is the degree to which it absorbs ink, and >>the gloss. It doesn't have to have a low melting point to >>achieve this and most don't have a low melting point. >> >>I regularly put coated inkjet paper through a couple of >>laser printers I have, specifically it's semi-gloss photo >>paper as this type has reasonable toner adherance but most >>importantly for my needs, this type of paper delaminates >>when soaked in a detergent solution (I use it to make PCB >>etching patterns using the toner transfer method, in fact >>many many people do so with coated inkjet paper in laser >>printers without any problem, no damage to the fuser BUT >>that is no guarantee some other type of paper-like medium >>wouldn't cause problems). > >If you have used coated paper in a laser printer without a problem then either >the paper is designed for Laser use or you got lucky. False. Many, many people do so. >I have several customers >who have found out the hard way to check the packaging of their paper before >using it in a laser. Absolutely, if it is a specific type of paper using low melting point material it is listed as something unusual, not just coated paper or photopaper. > In some cases they have got away with it for some time and >suddenly the paper wraps around the fuser roller and then melts = new fuser. I've never claimed the risk was nonexistent, yes that is possible, and yet a rare exception to the norm. Someone with no need for coated paper should buy paper specifically described as suitable for laser printers. On the other hand, someone who has need for coated paper will generally find it works fine in a laser printer, now more than ever before paper manufacturers are producing paper that works in both types of printers because that opens up another market segment to them. It would be less of a gamble to try an unknown paper in a low value printer, especially an older one as they tended to operate fuser at higher temp. >So my advice remains the same, check the paper packaging, if it does not >mention Laser or Copier then it should not be used in a laser printer unless >the owner is prepared to risk a costly surprise. >Tony Ok, and most of the time that would be incorrect. Being conservative is good, especially when it's someone else's equipment, but being conservative to the point of ignoring the actual facts is excessive. Anyone using a paper only described as coated can in fact use it with only a very small risk. It is up to that person what risk to take, not you or I.
From: kony on 5 Apr 2008 18:58 On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:35:19 GMT, Arthur Entlich <e-printerhelp(a)mvps.org> wrote: >In general, paper designed specifically for inkjet printers should NOT >be used in laser printers, because the paper is heated to quite a high >temperature in a laser printer, and most inkjet printers do not heat the >paper at all, or use very low temperatures (just to dry the ink a bit >quicker). You conveniently ignored mentioning that it doesn't matter if most types of inkjet paper get hotter. > >Most standard bond paper will indicate it can be used for both inkjet >and laser paper. Some paper may have a finished surface to provide a >better image than laser bond paper, and those may indicate inkjet and >laser use. > >The problem is with paper that is designated for inkjet use >specifically. It probably has a special coating on it. The glossy and >semi-gloss types usually have some plastic or gelatin coating which may >melt under the heat of a laser fuser. It definitely has a coating, though "special" is a word you're trying to spin towards you argument. The coating is, like it or not, able to go through a laser printer without problems. It is an unusual, rare rare case when it can't, so rare that your blanket statement is incorrect. >However, even if they do not >melt, the may not react properly with laser technology. Some coated >matte papers designed for inkjets may be safe for laser printers, but >again, it is likely more costly than the equivalent laser version. What happens is that if the coating is too slick, toner does not adhere to the area. Printouts may not be clear or dirty looking if that is a problem. > >In general, it is best not to use papers designed for inkjet use in a >laser printer, unless they indicate they are safe for both technologies. > Further, in general, inkjet papers are much more costly than similar >types of laser printer papers. For instance, a glossy laser paper may >cost 10 to 20 cents, a similar glossy inkjet paper will cost 50 cents to >$1.50. > Glossy paper is cheaper now than it used to be. Using coated paper in a laser seems to have become some kind of urban myth in that everyone is saying "don't" so they have insufficient evidence about it, just continually repeating the myth instead. "Don't sail to the edge of the (flat) world, you'll fall off"... and so most never tried.
From: Tony on 5 Apr 2008 22:40 kony <spam(a)spam.com> wrote: >On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:03:58 -0500, Tony ><tonythebengaltiger(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>Actually, the properties that make a coated paper desirable >>>for inkjet use is the degree to which it absorbs ink, and >>>the gloss. It doesn't have to have a low melting point to >>>achieve this and most don't have a low melting point. >>> >>>I regularly put coated inkjet paper through a couple of >>>laser printers I have, specifically it's semi-gloss photo >>>paper as this type has reasonable toner adherance but most >>>importantly for my needs, this type of paper delaminates >>>when soaked in a detergent solution (I use it to make PCB >>>etching patterns using the toner transfer method, in fact >>>many many people do so with coated inkjet paper in laser >>>printers without any problem, no damage to the fuser BUT >>>that is no guarantee some other type of paper-like medium >>>wouldn't cause problems). >> >>If you have used coated paper in a laser printer without a problem then >>either >>the paper is designed for Laser use or you got lucky. > >False. Many, many people do so. > > >>I have several customers >>who have found out the hard way to check the packaging of their paper before >>using it in a laser. > >Absolutely, if it is a specific type of paper using low >melting point material it is listed as something unusual, >not just coated paper or photopaper. > > >> In some cases they have got away with it for some time and >>suddenly the paper wraps around the fuser roller and then melts = new fuser. > >I've never claimed the risk was nonexistent, yes that is >possible, and yet a rare exception to the norm. Someone >with no need for coated paper should buy paper specifically >described as suitable for laser printers. > >On the other hand, someone who has need for coated paper >will generally find it works fine in a laser printer, now >more than ever before paper manufacturers are producing >paper that works in both types of printers because that >opens up another market segment to them. It would be less >of a gamble to try an unknown paper in a low value printer, >especially an older one as they tended to operate fuser at >higher temp. > > > >>So my advice remains the same, check the paper packaging, if it does not >>mention Laser or Copier then it should not be used in a laser printer unless >>the owner is prepared to risk a costly surprise. >>Tony > >Ok, and most of the time that would be incorrect. Being >conservative is good, especially when it's someone else's >equipment, but being conservative to the point of ignoring >the actual facts is excessive. > >Anyone using a paper only described as coated can in fact >use it with only a very small risk. It is up to that person >what risk to take, not you or I. I for one am not telling anybody to do anything. I merely answered a very reasonable request for information and have provided an opinion. For what it's worth, and I suspect you will find it worthless, here are some bits of information. 1. This comes from a public HP document (user guide) for a current printer "Do not use photo paper that is intended for Inkjet printers. Do not use paper that is embossed or coated, or any media that produces hazardous emissions, or that melts, offsets, or discolors when exposed to 190�C (374�F) for 0.1 second. Also, do not use letterhead paper that is made with dyes or inks that cannot withstand that temperature." This warning is typically present in most if not all HP LaserJet user guides. 2. http://www.okidata.com/mkt/downloads/OKIMediaGuide.pdf see page 12 item G, OKI and HP seem to agree. 3. http://www.cs.indiana.edu/Facilities/FAQ/Printing/legal.html see the note on the last page, it seems that the University of Indiana also agrees. 4. http://www.graphic-design.com/DTG/Design/Paper/Laser2.html this seems to be a business but see the penultimate paragraph. There are many, many more that admonish people to not use coated papers in laser printers unless specifically designed for that purpose which is all that I said. It is unlikely in the extreme that a paper manufacturer would fail to indicate the suitability of a particular paper for laser printers if indeed that was the case. Therefore, is it not logical to assume that only paper that is identified for use in a laser engine (printer or copier) is safe to use? I don't know where you get your information that "I've never claimed the risk was nonexistent, yes that is possible, and yet a rare exception to the norm.". I dispute that absolutely, I think I can safely say that cooated paper that is not designed for laser printer use will always in due course cause damageto most laser printers, it is only a matter of time. It may not happen today but it will happen. And if you can't accept that, perhaps you can accept that to take even the slightest risk is stupidity; in many cases the cost of a fuser approches the cost of a replacement printer. Why would anyone take that risk knowing that the risk exists. My own experience is that all printer manufacturers will void warranty if inkjet only coated paper damages a laser printer and I have seen this more often than I would wish. Once more, why take the risk when there are alternatives available? Tony MS MVP Printing/Imaging
From: Jon Danniken on 6 Apr 2008 05:23
"kony" [snip] > > I regularly put coated inkjet paper through a couple of > laser printers I have, specifically it's semi-gloss photo > paper as this type has reasonable toner adherance but most > importantly for my needs, this type of paper delaminates > when soaked in a detergent solution (I use it to make PCB > etching patterns using the toner transfer method, in fact > many many people do so with coated inkjet paper in laser > printers without any problem, no damage to the fuser BUT > that is no guarantee some other type of paper-like medium > wouldn't cause problems). Hi kony, If you don't mind me asking, what paper do you get the best results with? I picked up some of the Staples Glossy Photo Paper for a board last year (never got around to making it though), and I would be curious to know which one you use. Jon |