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From: Andrew Ballard on 6 Aug 2010 09:09
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:31 AM, tedd <tedd.sperling(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> While it may not be obvious, the statement:
>
> <table border="1">
>
> is flawed (IMO).
>
> The "best" way to handle this is to define a class (or id) for the table in
> a css file and then set the border (i.e., styling) to whatever you want. For
> example, your HTML would look like:
>
> <table class="my_table">
>
> And your CSS would contain:
>
> .my_table
>   {
>   border: 1px solid black;
>   }
>

I more or less agree with you, but sometimes it's technically a little
more difficult than that. The border attribute on the table tag
affects not only the table itself, but also the cells inside it. The
CSS attribute only draws a border around the table. I believe the CSS
equivalent of how most browsers (I tested Fx 3.6.8, IE 7, Google
Chrome 5, Opera 10.53, and Safari (Windows) 5.0.1) render <table
border="1"> takes a little more:

table.my_table,
table.my_table > thead > tr > th,
table.my_table > tbody > tr > th,
table.my_table > tfoot > tr > th,
table.my_table > thead > tr > td,
table.my_table > tbody > tr > td,
table.my_table > tfoot > tr > td
{
border: solid 1px black;
}

And, of the browsers listed above, IE7 did not render the table
correctly. (I'm guessing it must not properly handle the child CSS
selectors.) If you do it without the child selectors:

table.my_table,
table.my_table th,
table.my_table td
{
border: solid 1px black;
}

All the browsers render it the same, but it has the side effect that
cells in nested tables also inherit the borders unless you do
something to exclude them:

table.my_table,
table.my_table th,
table.my_table td
{
border: solid 1px black;
}

table.my_table table,
table.my_table table th,
table.my_table table td
{
border: none;
}

As is often the case with CSS, that's a good bit more text to
accomplish the same effect as an older, smaller attribute. :-)

Andrew
From: tedd on 6 Aug 2010 10:11
At 9:09 AM -0400 8/6/10, Andrew Ballard wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:31 AM, tedd <tedd.sperling(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> While it may not be obvious, the statement:
>>
> > <table border="1">
>>
>> is flawed (IMO).
>>
>> The "best" way to handle this is to define a class (or id) for the table in
>> a css file and then set the border (i.e., styling) to whatever you want. For
>> example, your HTML would look like:
>>
>> <table class="my_table">
>>
>> And your CSS would contain:
>>
>> .my_table
>> {
>> border: 1px solid black;
>> }
>>
>
>I more or less agree with you, but sometimes it's technically a little
>more difficult than that.
>
>-snip-
>
>As is often the case with CSS, that's a good bit more text to
>accomplish the same effect as an older, smaller attribute. :-)
>
>Andrew

Andrew:

The problem you cite is well said and your point is well taken.

However, the main point I am making is to move this problem totally
out of the HTML/PHP arena and place it where it belongs, which is
inside CSS -- after it *is* a presentation problem.

IMO, it is *far* better to deal with browser comparability problems
from one CSS file than it is to sort through all your PHP files
looking for the phrase <table border="1">. From my experience, when
you have a problem, it is always better to give it a name and deal
with it from one location.

As for "older, smaller attributes", they are only getting older and
their importance lessens with time (I can relate.) :-)

Cheers,

tedd

--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
From: Bill Guion on 6 Aug 2010 11:18
At 8:31 AM -0400 08/06/10, tedd wrote:

>Cheers,
>
>tedd
>
>PS: Considering that this is Friday. I have a grammar question for
>the group. I said above:
>
>"neither CSS, PHP, or any web language exist in a vacuum."
>
>Is the word "neither" appropriate in this sentence?
>
>Normally, two items can be compared by "neither" or "nor", but what
>about more than two items? Is it appropriate to use "neither" or
>"nor" for more than two items?

Somewhere along the line, probably in college (if it were before
college, it would have been so long ago I would have forgotten it), a
professor said to handle this sort of thing thusly:

neither A, nor B, nor C ....

A little more wordy, but completely unambiguous.

-----===== Bill =====-----
--

Don't find fault. Find a remedy. - Henry Ford


From: Richard Quadling on 6 Aug 2010 11:45
On 6 August 2010 16:18, Bill Guion <bguion(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> At 8:31 AM -0400 08/06/10, tedd wrote:
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> tedd
>>
>> PS: Considering that this is Friday. I have a grammar question for the
>> group. I said above:
>>
>> "neither CSS, PHP, or any web language exist in a vacuum."
>>
>> Is the word "neither" appropriate in this sentence?
>>
>> Normally, two items can be compared by "neither"  or "nor", but what about
>> more than two items? Is it appropriate to use "neither"  or "nor" for more
>> than two items?
>
> Somewhere along the line, probably in college (if it were before college, it
> would have been so long ago I would have forgotten it), a professor said to
> handle this sort of thing thusly:
>
> neither A, nor B, nor C ....
>
> A little more wordy, but completely unambiguous.

"neither CSS, PHP, nor any web language exist in a vacuum."

would probably do. All negatives, so little wiggle room really.
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