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From: mchampag on 18 Jun 2008 10:55
Hello, all-

I'm implementing a recording system for a university's music school
and I thought it might be useful to throw it out to you guys for
comment. Our mission is to capture and archive all student, faculty,
and guest recitals (ca. 175-200 annually) with a staff of myself plus
a half-dozen or so student employees.

We have a pair of good spaces--a recital hall and an auditorium, in
which pairs of DPA mikes will be hung permanently, likely from
Servoreeler winches. I'm planning a pair of 4012s for the recital hall
and 4003s for the auditorium. They'll be sending mostly line level
back to the recording system.

Recording will happen in a centralized space with two or three Pro
Tools HD1 systems. In addition to the stereo pairs from the halls,
we're bringing 110-ohm Belden 1850F multicore (16 from the recital
hall and 32 from the auditorium) to Central Recording terminating in
an XLR patch bay. We'll also have a pair of PTZ cameras in each space
for monitoring what's happening onstage.

In Central Recording, the plan is to have 32 channels of Millennia
HV-3 preamps and Prism converters and mix and match as needed among
all the halls and rehearsal spaces (which will have a few channels of
their own tied to Central Recording). All that stuff is going to be on
TT patchbays. Audio capture on three minimal Pro Tools HD1 (one card +
one 192 Digital I/O on two machines for up to 16 channels, and a third
system with 2 192 Digital I/Os for up to 32 channels) running on Mac
Pros with a pair of monitors each. Again, we're going with Digi 192s
so that we can have flexibility with patching AES channel pairs to
whichever recording computer needs them. The main station (with 32
ins) will have 5.1 monitoring; the other two will have 2.0 monitoring.
42" plasmas on the front wall to watch the stage goings-on during
recitals (and Lord of the Rings all other times to prevent burn-in).

Safety/performer copies will be recorded simultaneously on an HHB
CDR882 and a Tascam DV-RA1000 via a Henry Engineering Digital D.A. 2x8
from the appropriate Prism (hall pair) outs.

Nightly backups (with either Time Machine or an rsync-based script) of
all data to a Mac Pro acting as a server.

Maybe a couple of lava lamps, too. That's basically it. Any comments
you could make are welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

-Matt
From: kooz on 18 Jun 2008 17:39
On Jun 18, 10:55 am, "mcham...(a)gmail.com" <mcham...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe a couple of lava lamps, too. That's basically it. Any comments
> you could make are welcome and appreciated. Thanks!
>
Ha! DPA mics, Millennia Pres, multiple MacPros running multiple PTHD
rigs...I think you might be able to squeak a couple of lava lamps into
your budget...and since you have all that, a bag of chips too!

Seriously, the points that Jim Weld made are extremely valid. The
digital infrastructure he mentions is increasingly important, so don't
overlook/discount adding a networking solution as well. There are
ways to send multichannel audio in realtime over Cat5/6 cabling...much
less expensive (and easier to install) than the Belden Multicore you
mention. And MADI might work brilliantly, given the "central control"
you've mentioned. As far as audio fidelity is concerned, it is better
to keep the pre-amp as close to the mic as possible...


From: Scott Dorsey on 19 Jun 2008 10:31
mchampag(a)gmail.com <mchampag(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>We have a pair of good spaces--a recital hall and an auditorium, in
>which pairs of DPA mikes will be hung permanently, likely from
>Servoreeler winches. I'm planning a pair of 4012s for the recital hall
>and 4003s for the auditorium. They'll be sending mostly line level
>back to the recording system.

How is it turning into line level? And are you suspending the things
in X-Y pairs or with a little space between them?

I suggest spending a couple afternoons with a ladder and some booms
to find the right locations in the room before you permanently install
the servoreelers. Try and keep the actual placement off the drawings
until as late in the process as possible.

Also... I would be worried about security. In any group of students there
will occasionally be a dishonest one. How easy is it to pull the mikes
up and secure them so that they cannot be removed? If there is a catwalk
up there, someone will use it.

>Recording will happen in a centralized space with two or three Pro
>Tools HD1 systems. In addition to the stereo pairs from the halls,
>we're bringing 110-ohm Belden 1850F multicore (16 from the recital
>hall and 32 from the auditorium) to Central Recording terminating in
>an XLR patch bay. We'll also have a pair of PTZ cameras in each space
>for monitoring what's happening onstage.

I suggest using the 110-ohm cable for everything, even the microphones.
It's fine for analogue signals, and you may need to run digital over it
someday. You cannot have too much digital infrastructure. Also run
twice as many pairs as you ever think you will need.

>In Central Recording, the plan is to have 32 channels of Millennia
>HV-3 preamps and Prism converters and mix and match as needed among
>all the halls and rehearsal spaces (which will have a few channels of
>their own tied to Central Recording). All that stuff is going to be on
>TT patchbays.

I suggest having XLR patchbays for the mike-level signals rather than
running mike signals through bantams. And I do strongly suggest having
the mike signals patchable... someday you will lose power before a concert
and be glad that you could drop the servoreeler by hand, and plug a
portable recorder into the mike patchbay.

>Audio capture on three minimal Pro Tools HD1 (one card +
>one 192 Digital I/O on two machines for up to 16 channels, and a third
>system with 2 192 Digital I/Os for up to 32 channels) running on Mac
>Pros with a pair of monitors each. Again, we're going with Digi 192s
>so that we can have flexibility with patching AES channel pairs to
>whichever recording computer needs them.

If you have enough channels, you could consider just multing all of the
inputs to all of the computers. That way nobody gets confused about what
is patched where, or have the "my channel 3 is your channel 6, my channel
4 is your channel 7" headache.

I see no reason if you are making all the analogue stuff patchable to make
the digital stuff patchable too, but that's just me.

>Safety/performer copies will be recorded simultaneously on an HHB
>CDR882 and a Tascam DV-RA1000 via a Henry Engineering Digital D.A. 2x8
>from the appropriate Prism (hall pair) outs.

I suggest making the safety copies off of the analogue feed out of the
Millennia... or maybe off a different microphone pair altogether.
Duplicate as much as possible of the system for the safety, because the
whole purpose if the safety is to act as a backup and the more of the
system that it backs up, the better.

>Nightly backups (with either Time Machine or an rsync-based script) of
>all data to a Mac Pro acting as a server.
>
>Maybe a couple of lava lamps, too. That's basically it. Any comments
>you could make are welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

Sounds like a nice facility. Don't forget to have a 2-track analogue
machine in the corner, though!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: mchampag on 19 Jun 2008 13:28
On Jun 18, 5:39 pm, kooz <atomi...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 18, 10:55 am, "mcham...(a)gmail.com" <mcham...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe a couple of lava lamps, too. That's basically it. Any comments
> > you could make are welcome and appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Ha!  DPA mics, Millennia Pres, multiple MacPros running multiple PTHD
> rigs...I think you might be able to squeak a couple of lava lamps into
> your budget...and since you have all that, a bag of chips too!
>
> Seriously, the points that Jim Weld made are extremely valid.  The
> digital infrastructure he mentions is increasingly important, so don't
> overlook/discount adding a networking solution as well.  There are
> ways to send multichannel audio in realtime over Cat5/6 cabling...much
> less expensive (and easier to install) than the Belden Multicore you
> mention.  And MADI might work brilliantly, given the "central control"
> you've mentioned.  As far as audio fidelity is concerned, it is better
> to keep the pre-amp as close to the mic as possible...


Your point about audio-over-Ethernet is good, and we're looking into
that for our "level 2" spaces, which are used less frequently or for
less critical performances. But I have a strong desire to, as much as
practical, keep to the analog/copper model, mainly for system
robustness and my own sanity.

-Matt
From: mchampag on 19 Jun 2008 14:10
On Jun 19, 10:31 am, klu...(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> mcham...(a)gmail.com <mcham...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >We have a pair of good spaces--a recital hall and an auditorium, in
> >which pairs of DPA mikes will be hung permanently, likely from
> >Servoreeler winches. I'm planning a pair of 4012s for the recital hall
> >and 4003s for the auditorium. They'll be sending mostly line level
> >back to the recording system.
>
> How is it turning into line level?  And are you suspending the things
> in X-Y pairs or with a little space between them?
>
> I suggest spending a couple afternoons with a ladder and some booms
> to find the right locations in the room before you permanently install
> the servoreelers.  Try and keep the actual placement off the drawings
> until as late in the process as possible.
>
> Also... I would be worried about security.  In any group of students there
> will occasionally be a dishonest one.   How easy is it to pull the mikes
> up and secure them so that they cannot be removed?  If there is a catwalk
> up there, someone will use it.
>
> >Recording will happen in a centralized space with two or three Pro
> >Tools HD1 systems. In addition to the stereo pairs from the halls,
> >we're bringing 110-ohm Belden 1850F multicore (16 from the recital
> >hall and 32 from the auditorium) to Central Recording terminating in
> >an XLR patch bay. We'll also have a pair of PTZ cameras in each space
> >for monitoring what's happening onstage.
>
> I suggest using the 110-ohm cable for everything, even the microphones.
> It's fine for analogue signals, and you may need to run digital over it
> someday.  You cannot have too much digital infrastructure.  Also run
> twice as many pairs as you ever think you will need.
>
> >In Central Recording, the plan is to have 32 channels of Millennia
> >HV-3 preamps and Prism converters and mix and match as needed among
> >all the halls and rehearsal spaces (which will have a few channels of
> >their own tied to Central Recording). All that stuff is going to be on
> >TT patchbays.
>
> I suggest having XLR patchbays for the mike-level signals rather than
> running mike signals through bantams.  And I do strongly suggest having
> the mike signals patchable... someday you will lose power before a concert
> and be glad that you could drop the servoreeler by hand, and plug a
> portable recorder into the mike patchbay.
>
> >Audio capture on three minimal Pro Tools HD1 (one card +
> >one 192 Digital I/O on two machines for up to 16 channels, and a third
> >system with 2 192 Digital I/Os for up to 32 channels) running on Mac
> >Pros with a pair of monitors each. Again, we're going with Digi 192s
> >so that we can have flexibility with patching AES channel pairs to
> >whichever recording computer needs them.
>
> If you have enough channels, you could consider just multing all of the
> inputs to all of the computers.  That way nobody gets confused about what
> is patched where, or have the "my channel 3 is your channel 6, my channel
> 4 is your channel 7" headache.  
>
> I see no reason if you are making all the analogue stuff patchable to make
> the digital stuff patchable too, but that's just me.
>
> >Safety/performer copies will be recorded simultaneously on an HHB
> >CDR882 and a Tascam DV-RA1000 via a Henry Engineering Digital D.A. 2x8
> >from the appropriate Prism (hall pair) outs.
>
> I suggest making the safety copies off of the analogue feed out of the
> Millennia... or maybe off a different microphone pair altogether.  
> Duplicate as much as possible of the system for the safety, because the
> whole purpose if the safety is to act as a backup and the more of the
> system that it backs up, the better.
>
> >Nightly backups (with either Time Machine or an rsync-based script) of
> >all data to a Mac Pro acting as a server.
>
> >Maybe a couple of lava lamps, too. That's basically it. Any comments
> >you could make are welcome and appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Sounds like a nice facility.  Don't forget to have a 2-track analogue
> machine in the corner, though!
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Thanks for responding, Scott. Remember I'm spec'ing DPA 130v mikes--
the HMA5000 power supply/preamp outputs line level. As for stereo
configuration, probably cardioids in NOS for our recital hall, and
definitely omnis in ca. 4' A-B for the large hall. (I have a problem
with X/Y because of its mono reproduction of reverberation, hence the
relatively wide near-coincident NOS.)

We've been recording in the spaces since last September, so we have a
good start on appropriate array positions. The hanging mikes will be
configurable both height- and distance-wise. As for security, that's a
good point. My plan is to pull the mikes up to the ceiling after every
performance.

We are using 110-ohm for all mike- and line-level audio. And XLR patch
bays for mike-to-preamp patching. That's an interesting point about
losing power before a show. I was planning to have UPS in the rack,
but we'll also need some for the DPA mike amps in the ceilings.

Multing all the converter outs to all of the Pro Tools ins would be
just as confusing, if not more so--at least with patch cords we'll be
able to actually SEE what's connected to what. Particularly because
we're not normalling mikes to preamp channels (to maintain system
flexibility). Your "my channel 3 is your channel 6, my channel 4 is
your channel 7" scenario could present a problem. We'll need a good
system for partitioning preamp/converter channel pairs among
simultaneous sessions.

Maybe we should hard wire the preamp outs to the converter inputs,
come to think of it. I still want to patch the converter outs to the
Digidesign ins so we can record on whichever station we need to.

Good point about running safeties off the analog feed. In my
experience, though, I've never had a preamp or converter fail. But if
some student hits "return" instead of "enter" to create a marker, we
get a stopped Pro Tools rig. And then the safety from the same digital
signal comes in pretty handy for patching.

As for the analog machine in the corner, what do you suggest? I'd kind
of like a gramophone!

-Matt
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