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From: chezestake on 21 Oct 2005 19:00
I am going to record our churches organist and primary female vocalist.
This is not a volunteer gig, so it isn't too high pressure. However,
time is the problem for all involved. I plan to do this with 3
mics...KM184's x-y on the organ and an AT4040 on the vocalist. They
want to do the vocals and organ together...they have always worked
together and don't want to dub the vocals. So...what is a good
starting point with regard to mic placement? The pipes are near the
cieling which is about 20' tall. How close do you think I should try
to get the mics to the pipes? I'm thinking of having the vocalist
about 15 feet away facing the organist, and the pipes, so the cardiod
4040 will be pointing away from the mics into the open church.

Before anyone says to experiment...I am looking for a reasonable
starting point from some of you guys that do these types of recordings.
Time is tight for what they want to get done in one session. What are
the pitfalls that I'm missing? I have a song set up on my pc and have
tested all the mics so I can just hit the red button once I'm set up.

Unfortunately I only have a PC so I am going to lug it with me. A
laptop would be nice, wouldn't it?

Tom

From: Scott Dorsey on 21 Oct 2005 19:06
<chezestake(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>I am going to record our churches organist and primary female vocalist.
> This is not a volunteer gig, so it isn't too high pressure. However,
>time is the problem for all involved. I plan to do this with 3
>mics...KM184's x-y on the organ and an AT4040 on the vocalist. They
>want to do the vocals and organ together...they have always worked
>together and don't want to dub the vocals. So...what is a good
>starting point with regard to mic placement? The pipes are near the
>cieling which is about 20' tall. How close do you think I should try
>to get the mics to the pipes? I'm thinking of having the vocalist
>about 15 feet away facing the organist, and the pipes, so the cardiod
>4040 will be pointing away from the mics into the open church.

Skip the 4040. Mike the room, and get the organ sounding good. In a
lot of places that is going to take some trial and error to get the
overall balance between direct and reflected sound right. You don't
want things too close or too far, and you want the lower registers to
sound even.

I tend to find omnis are less trouble; the Jecklin disc allows closer
placement than an ORTF pair and the low end on omnis tends to be more
solid. But the KM184 is fine if that's what you've got.

Once you have the organ sounding okay, bring in the vocalist and move
the vocalist around until she is clean and solid in the main pair.
I find sometimes I need to drop the main pair a lot to do this... I
tend to want to go high to get the organ sound right, but then I have
to drop down to slightly above head height to get the vocal right.
You do what you can.

>Before anyone says to experiment...I am looking for a reasonable
>starting point from some of you guys that do these types of recordings.
> Time is tight for what they want to get done in one session. What are
>the pitfalls that I'm missing? I have a song set up on my pc and have
>tested all the mics so I can just hit the red button once I'm set up.

You can't do that. You are better off starting with a single pair, and
setting things up to use that one pair. Bring a pair of monitor speakers
so you can hear the playback on something that images properly. Expect
to spend an hour or so while the organist plays scales or something (and
don't forget the pedals) if this is your first time doing this.

> Unfortunately I only have a PC so I am going to lug it with me. A
>laptop would be nice, wouldn't it?

Hell, the monitors are going to weigh more than the PC anyway.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: geoley on 21 Oct 2005 19:58

<chezestake(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129935601.328694.304780(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am going to record our churches organist and primary female vocalist.
> This is not a volunteer gig, so it isn't too high pressure. However,
> time is the problem for all involved. I plan to do this with 3
> mics...KM184's x-y on the organ and an AT4040 on the vocalist. They
> want to do the vocals and organ together...they have always worked
> together and don't want to dub the vocals. So...what is a good
> starting point with regard to mic placement? The pipes are near the
> cieling which is about 20' tall. How close do you think I should try
> to get the mics to the pipes? I'm thinking of having the vocalist
> about 15 feet away facing the organist, and the pipes, so the cardiod
> 4040 will be pointing away from the mics into the open church.
>
> Before anyone says to experiment...I am looking for a reasonable
> starting point from some of you guys that do these types of recordings.
> Time is tight for what they want to get done in one session. What are
> the pitfalls that I'm missing? I have a song set up on my pc and have
> tested all the mics so I can just hit the red button once I'm set up.
>
> Unfortunately I only have a PC so I am going to lug it with me. A
> laptop would be nice, wouldn't it?
>
> Tom
>
I tend to agree with Scott on using a pair of omni's in a Jecklin Disc.
Depending where the pipe chamber/s are located such as in the chancel or at
the rear of the church in the choir loft will dictate where you set your
mics. Most of the church music I have recorded has been solo organ, so did
not have worry about vocals. I have a pair of Schoeps omni mics that I have
used in my Jecklin Disc with excellent results, but I see no problem
including a vocalist with that setup. If you don't have access to a Jecklin
Disc then I would try using your KM184 mics in a spaced configuration. Just
my 2 cents.
George


From: Kurt Riemann on 21 Oct 2005 22:09
On 21 Oct 2005 16:00:01 -0700, chezestake(a)hotmail.com wrote:

>I am going to record our churches organist and primary female vocalist.
> This is not a volunteer gig, so it isn't too high pressure. However,
>time is the problem for all involved. I plan to do this with 3
>mics...KM184's x-y on the organ and an AT4040 on the vocalist. They
>want to do the vocals and organ together...they have always worked
>together and don't want to dub the vocals. So...what is a good
>starting point with regard to mic placement? The pipes are near the
>cieling which is about 20' tall. How close do you think I should try
>to get the mics to the pipes? I'm thinking of having the vocalist
>about 15 feet away facing the organist, and the pipes, so the cardiod
>4040 will be pointing away from the mics into the open church.
>
>Before anyone says to experiment...I am looking for a reasonable
>starting point from some of you guys that do these types of recordings.
> Time is tight for what they want to get done in one session. What are
>the pitfalls that I'm missing? I have a song set up on my pc and have
>tested all the mics so I can just hit the red button once I'm set up.
>
> Unfortunately I only have a PC so I am going to lug it with me. A
>laptop would be nice, wouldn't it?
>
>Tom

Do exactly what Scott Dorsey says.







Kurt Riemann
From: SSJVCmag on 22 Oct 2005 00:03
On 10/21/05 7:00 PM, in article
1129935601.328694.304780(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"chezestake(a)hotmail.com" <chezestake(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am going to record our churches organist and primary female vocalist.
> This is not a volunteer gig, so it isn't too high pressure. However,
> time is the problem for all involved. I plan to do this with 3
> mics...KM184's x-y on the organ and an AT4040 on the vocalist. They
> want to do the vocals and organ together...they have always worked
> together and don't want to dub the vocals. So...what is a good
> starting point with regard to mic placement? The pipes are near the
> cieling which is about 20' tall. How close do you think I should try
> to get the mics to the pipes?

30-70 feet

> I'm thinking of having the vocalist
> about 15 feet away facing the organist, and the pipes, so the cardiod
> 4040 will be pointing away from the mics into the open church.
>
> Before anyone says to experiment...I am looking for a reasonable
> starting point from some of you guys that do these types of recordings.
> Time is tight for what they want to get done in one session. What are
> the pitfalls that I'm missing? I have a song set up on my pc and have
> tested all the mics so I can just hit the red button once I'm set up.
>
> Unfortunately I only have a PC so I am going to lug it with me. A
> laptop would be nice, wouldn't it?

Organist where they;d normally be for performance (in a classic loft that'd
be with the organist facing the pipe gallery back-to-congregation) and the
vocalist facing out to the congregation at the edge of the coir loft.

A pair some 5-30 feet out from the edge of the singer should be a place to
start.


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