Sim Cards
in [UK Mobile]
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From: Hiram Hackenbacker on 25 Feb 2005 09:02 Gareth wrote: >>>>>It's worse than that. The chances are your auctions will be pulled as a >>>>>result of complaints from the mobile networks who object to the resale >>>>>of SIM cards (which they oddly regard as being their property despite >>>>>private ownership). >>>> >>>>And they'd be right, the SIM card is the property of the network operator >>>>because the Ts&Cs explicitly state that as a condition of use. >>> >>> >>>Bollocks. >>> >>>The SIM card is in private ownership and the T&Cs are a separate issue of >>>private disagreement between the seller and the network. >>> >>>If the networks want to enforce their silly T&Cs then they should be >>>forced to do so through the courts and not through half baked legal >>>threats to Ebay. >> >>Well for 40+ years credit card companies have treated their cards in the >>same way - i.e. - they remain their property. You would think the law >>would have caught up with this sharp practice and you could use that case >>precedent to own your own SIM :-) > > > You do own the physical SIM in the same way as you own the physical plastic > of the credit card. A quick check on the back of my Barclaycard reveals this:- "This card...is the property of Barclays Bank PLC". On the rear of my Centurian card it states "This card is the property of the issuer [Amex] and must be returned upon request". On my Maestro card it states "It is the property of First Direct". How exactly do I own the physical plastic? Surely the fact that I don't own it allows banks and mechants to cut the card up in front of me in special circumstances. I have always accepted that such cards and SIM remain the property of the issuer - if that is what the T&C's have stated. What law are you relying upon to circumvent this? Do your cards differ from mine perhaps?
From: Luap on 25 Feb 2005 09:36 Ivor Jones wrote: > Gareth wrote: > >>"Brian Morrison" <scrapspam(a)fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message >>news:z_6dncyFTr2MbYPfRVnyvw(a)eclipse.net.uk... >> >>>Gareth wrote: >>> >>> >>>>It's worse than that. The chances are your auctions will be >>>>pulled as a result of complaints from the mobile networks who >>>>object to the resale of SIM cards (which they oddly regard as >>>>being their property despite private ownership). >>> >>>And they'd be right, the SIM card is the property of the network >>>operator because the Ts&Cs explicitly state that as a condition of >>>use. >> >>Bollocks. >> >>The SIM card is in private ownership and the T&Cs are a separate >>issue of private disagreement between the seller and the network. > > > It's not bollocks at all. It is *clearly* stated in the T&C's that *you* > sign and *agree to* when you take out a contract or buy a PAYG phone. > > You have agreed to it, therefore it is not bollocks. > > The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant. Go and find a network that > does let you own the SIM, I wish you luck, do come back and tell us who it > is..! > > Ivor > > I've never signed anything on PAYG Lua
From: Hiram Hackenbacker on 25 Feb 2005 10:25 Luap wrote: >>>> And they'd be right, the SIM card is the property of the network >>>> operator because the Ts&Cs explicitly state that as a condition of >>>> use. >>> >>> >>> Bollocks. >>> >>> The SIM card is in private ownership and the T&Cs are a separate >>> issue of private disagreement between the seller and the network. >> >> >> >> It's not bollocks at all. It is *clearly* stated in the T&C's that >> *you* sign and *agree to* when you take out a contract or buy a PAYG >> phone. >> >> You have agreed to it, therefore it is not bollocks. >> >> The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant. Go and find a network >> that does let you own the SIM, I wish you luck, do come back and tell >> us who it is..! >> >> Ivor >> >> > > I've never signed anything on PAYG Correct - but then some contracts become binding even if you don't sign - often you will accept those terms in using the service. This is true of PAYG SIM's, buying a rail ticket, visiting certain websites, etc. In practical terms PAYG users would present the networks with difficultly if they tried to reclaim physical ownership of a given SIM - that doesn't stop the network from still owning the SIM.
From: Ivor Jones on 25 Feb 2005 12:58 Gareth wrote: [snip] > You own the SIM card and this is irrespective of the T&C contract. > If someone steals the SIM card from you they are committing the > offence of theft (against you and not against the network). How can it be..? If you agree to the T&C's (and you have to to use the network) and the T&C's state the SIM is the network's property, how can you possibly argue otherwise..?! Ivor
From: Ivor Jones on 25 Feb 2005 12:59
Brian Morrison wrote: [snip] > As others have said, you agree to the terms when you enter into a > contract with the operator, but with an unregistered pre-pay SIM > there would be a question as to when this contract commences. When you first make or receive a call, I would guess. Ivor |