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From: Joe Kotroczo on 17 Jul 2008 10:39

http://www.roadie.net/portal/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=811

Ouch.

--
Joe Kotroczo kotroczo(a)mac.com

From: jakdedert on 17 Jul 2008 11:22
Joe Kotroczo wrote:
> http://www.roadie.net/portal/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=811
>
> Ouch.
>
I hate outdoor gigs. I think I'd be just as happy if I never worked
another one for the rest of my life....

"Side stages"? I wonder if they were referring to the sound
wings--looked like it. If so, it would take a lot to have them 'up and
running' the next day as promised. I wonder if they made it....

jak
From: jakdedert on 17 Jul 2008 13:33
jakdedert wrote:
> Joe Kotroczo wrote:
>> http://www.roadie.net/portal/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=811
>>
>> Ouch.
>>
> I hate outdoor gigs. I think I'd be just as happy if I never worked
> another one for the rest of my life....
>
> "Side stages"? I wonder if they were referring to the sound
> wings--looked like it. If so, it would take a lot to have them 'up and
> running' the next day as promised. I wonder if they made it....
>
> jak

Google knows....

Yeah, they went on. No, it wasn't the wings, but aux stages set for
second-tier acts that flopped over...Thomas roofs according to one
source. As to why these two roofs fell, while the main stage and the
numerous tents on-site survived? Sounds like an impending job vacancy
to me.....

Apparently they rebuilt them, I've no idea how. They initially offered
to let scheduled acts play in even smaller tent venues. The news is a
little confused on that score. Some sources say bands were canceled,
others say they refused to play.

I have seen a Thomas top in a near-tornado. (Beale Street Festival
'92?). It was not pretty...but the structure survived. The roof itself
slammed up and down several times, against the limits of the spanset
safeties (about a foot and a half of slack, allowing maybe three feet of
travel). When things settled down, some brave riggers released the
safeties, allowing the roof to be brought in partially. The towers were
apparently never in danger. We loaded out sound in a driving rain with
the roof just above our heads.

jak
From: Joe Kotroczo on 17 Jul 2008 15:07
On 17/07/08 19:33, in article amLfk.2705$Zc5.2093(a)bignews8.bellsouth.net,
"jakdedert" <jakdedert(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:

> jakdedert wrote:
>> Joe Kotroczo wrote:
>>> http://www.roadie.net/portal/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=811
>>>
>>> Ouch.
>>>
>> I hate outdoor gigs. I think I'd be just as happy if I never worked
>> another one for the rest of my life....
>>
>> "Side stages"? I wonder if they were referring to the sound
>> wings--looked like it. If so, it would take a lot to have them 'up and
>> running' the next day as promised. I wonder if they made it....
>>
>> jak
>
> Google knows....
>
> Yeah, they went on. No, it wasn't the wings, but aux stages set for
> second-tier acts that flopped over...Thomas roofs according to one
> source. As to why these two roofs fell, while the main stage and the
> numerous tents on-site survived? Sounds like an impending job vacancy
> to me.....
(...)

Found this:

"The stages that collapsed were designed to withstand strong winds and were
constructed correctly. The rain fall 3 days prior softened the ground and
the humidity never allowed the ground to dry causing the 14 anchors to fail
when the 65mph gust hit the venue. 6: The fact that the stages were built
correctly is what eventually saved lives. Both roofs came down slow enough
for poeple to get out of the way."
(http://www.knaclive.com/article.asp?ArticleID=6430)

Ok, so they were built correctly but anchored incorrectly. I guess "anchor"
means something that gets hammered into the ground. How do you calculate how
much force you can apply to that?

Over here we always use water ballasts. (Or whatever you call them in
English.) They are plastic water tanks with metal frames that you can move
with a forklift and weigh next to nothing when empty, and hold 1000 liters,
which translates into a metric ton when filled with water.


--
Joe Kotroczo kotroczo(a)mac.com

From: jakdedert on 17 Jul 2008 15:28
Joe Kotroczo wrote:
> On 17/07/08 19:33, in article amLfk.2705$Zc5.2093(a)bignews8.bellsouth.net,
> "jakdedert" <jakdedert(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> jakdedert wrote:
>>> Joe Kotroczo wrote:
>>>> http://www.roadie.net/portal/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=811
>>>>
>>>> Ouch.
>>>>
>>> I hate outdoor gigs. I think I'd be just as happy if I never worked
>>> another one for the rest of my life....
>>>
>>> "Side stages"? I wonder if they were referring to the sound
>>> wings--looked like it. If so, it would take a lot to have them 'up and
>>> running' the next day as promised. I wonder if they made it....
>>>
>>> jak
>> Google knows....
>>
>> Yeah, they went on. No, it wasn't the wings, but aux stages set for
>> second-tier acts that flopped over...Thomas roofs according to one
>> source. As to why these two roofs fell, while the main stage and the
>> numerous tents on-site survived? Sounds like an impending job vacancy
>> to me.....
> (...)
>
> Found this:
>
> "The stages that collapsed were designed to withstand strong winds and were
> constructed correctly. The rain fall 3 days prior softened the ground and
> the humidity never allowed the ground to dry causing the 14 anchors to fail
> when the 65mph gust hit the venue. 6: The fact that the stages were built
> correctly is what eventually saved lives. Both roofs came down slow enough
> for poeple to get out of the way."
> (http://www.knaclive.com/article.asp?ArticleID=6430)
>
> Ok, so they were built correctly but anchored incorrectly. I guess "anchor"
> means something that gets hammered into the ground. How do you calculate how
> much force you can apply to that?
>
> Over here we always use water ballasts. (Or whatever you call them in
> English.) They are plastic water tanks with metal frames that you can move
> with a forklift and weigh next to nothing when empty, and hold 1000 liters,
> which translates into a metric ton when filled with water.
>
>
Sounds like a good plan. I don't have any idea how to calculate the
loads on the various guy wires that would result from wind loading on a
roof of a given size (but I'm sure that Thomas knows). Likewise, I
don't know if any formula exists for the load-bearing limits of an iron
stake of given length driven into a particular type of soil...lots of
variables: length, angle, type of soil, soil moisture content etc.
Usually there are large iron stakes pounded into the ground (or asphalt,
if the stage is on a parking lot). Usually they hold.
Occasionally--like this time--they don't.

However, one would have to infer that the same method was used on the
much larger main stage; which causes me to wonder why it stayed, and the
aux stages did not. Also, the plethora of tents on-site survived the
same winds, with presumably the same type of anchorage.

Water anchors would seem to eliminate most of the variables involved,
the friction coefficient of the container on the particular surface it
lay, being the only one left.

FWIW, the various power companies on this side of the Pond probably have
extensive research data on the strength of iron pounded into the earth,
as that is the primary method of guying transmission line support poles.
the one in front of my house has two guys, one of them is slack; and
the other was probably installed to back it up. It's obviously newer.....

jak
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