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From: **bg** on 23 Oct 2005 14:41

"The Realm" <bluesky(a)knology.net> wrote in message
news:qavml1ti4m53nft90mrrfponfg25gf7t65(a)4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering how these engineers get punchey drums on recordings;
> i.e. nirvana nevermind, Creed albums, etc. rock albums in general.

--------------------------------------------------
Hey IF, try this:

Get yer basic track sounding as good as you can.

Tend to roll off the lows and the 250k range as best, as much as you can.
Compress it a fair amount...then...

A.---Send it straight out thru the band track.

B.---Buss them all (no cymbals, but try the same with only them later) to a
stereo aux, with

1. lotsa (fast attack) compression
2. eq everything off below, say, about 1k; push the highs/mids a bit
3. mild delay, about 6ms on left and about 10ms on right.
4. effects like Tight NY Plate, just a hair, pan it a hair left.

Now...

....play with the eqs, dly amounts and ***levels*** vis a vis the signal
that's going straight out. A hair can make a difference.

Occasionally check it out *very loud* on headphones. Sounding good at high
levels in 'phones is important.

Thing is, it's a long haul of experimentation to be able to do it yourself;
there are many different ways to get what you're after.

One thing that makes a lot of sense is to figure out how to get your basic
tracks sounding as good as you can, and standardize it, fix it in place.

Set all your processing and other settings at a default and work from there,
remembering and understanding these defaults.

As you progress, you'll get a better handle on what does what, and how it
comes to sound that way etc, because you will have always started in the
same place.

Do a lot of reading, see www.musicbooksplus.com

Good luck,

-bg-
www.lchb.ca


From: SSJVCmag on 23 Oct 2005 22:12
On 10/23/05 2:41 PM, in article iPQ6f.282246$tl2.149088(a)pd7tw3no, "**bg**"
<headphoneband(a)shaw.ca> wrote:

>
> "The Realm" <bluesky(a)knology.net> wrote in message
> news:qavml1ti4m53nft90mrrfponfg25gf7t65(a)4ax.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am wondering how these engineers get punchey drums on recordings;

> Tend to roll off the lows and the 250k range as best, as much as you can.
> Compress it a fair amount...then...
>
> A.---Send it straight out thru the band track.
>
> B.---Buss them all (no cymbals, but try the same with only them later) to a
> stereo aux, with
>
> 1. lotsa (fast attack) compression
> 2. eq everything off below, say, about 1k; push the highs/mids a bit
> 3. mild delay, about 6ms on left and about 10ms on right.
> 4. effects like Tight NY Plate, just a hair, pan it a hair left.
>
> Now...
>
> ...play with the eqs, dly amounts and ***levels*** vis a vis the signal
> that's going straight out. A hair can make a difference.
>
> Occasionally check it out *very loud* on headphones. Sounding good at high
> levels in 'phones is important.

With the last half of the above (snipped for space) sounding fairly
reasonable, I'm not sure this -is- a joke...

From: Fletch on 24 Oct 2005 13:10


**bg** wrote On 10/23/05 11:41,:

> <snipped content>
> 1. lotsa (fast attack) compression

Too fast and you kill the initial attack of the drum. Why kill that? It's part of the "punch" you want.

> 2. eq everything off below, say, about 1k; push the highs/mids a bit

Hmm... you'll lose some of the beef if you roll off all that low end, which also helps the "punch",
too. There's a lot of sound happening below 1k that you don't want to lose. This was bad advice.

> 3. mild delay, about 6ms on left and about 10ms on right.

If using delay, you can "fatten" up a sound by "stretching" it with very short delay. This is
something you have to play with. What you want is not quite a slapback echo, but one that triggers
before the inital sound ends, in effect stretching the sound of the drum, making it "fatter".

> 4. effects like Tight NY Plate, just a hair, pan it a hair left.

The "punch" really is a matter of mic placement, proper compression, good EQ settings (best with
fully parametric 4 band, but I don't know if you have that) and a lot of patience. "Effects", per
se, aren't really necessary. But when applied correctly on drums, they do sound very cool.

> One thing that makes a lot of sense is to figure out how to get your basic
> tracks sounding as good as you can, and standardize it, fix it in place.

This requires you to get a good "print"/take. Do not try "fixing" it in the mix; this approach
rarely works and you have to be pretty bloody good to have a hope to "fix" anything that wasn't
recorded properly to begin with. Record it well by taking your time and half your job is done. Play
with the mic placement (have someone moving the mics around as the drummer plays the kit),
optimizing each placement for best overall sound. You'll know when it's set right because the drum
will "come alive" in that one spot.

Opinions vary about how you use compression and EQ during the recording process. I tend to record
with flat EQ and no compression because you can't get rid of something if it's in the base track.
Good mic placement will do a lot more than twiddling knobs and adding compression. So make sure the
drum kit is tuned well before recording anything because it will help a whole lot to have a good
sounding kit to begin with. And if the drummer doesn't understand what that means, have him read
some stuff about tuning drums over at Vic Firth's site.

> Set all your processing and other settings at a default and work from there,
> remembering and understanding these defaults.

Yeah, you can do that, if you want. I don't recommend mucking up the base tracks, though, as stated
above.

> As you progress, you'll get a better handle on what does what, and how it
> comes to sound that way etc, because you will have always started in the
> same place.

Recording does have a long learning curve. Experimentation is at the heart of the matter. But there
are tried and true techniques that defy time and gimmickry. You would do well to learn some of these
approaches first to gain an understanding of basic recording techniques. And that means you do have
to do some reading. But then you have to actually sit down and apply what you're learning from
reading to see how it really works. Hands on stuff, time on the tool, is more valuable than all the
advice in the world.

> Do a lot of reading, see www.musicbooksplus.com

Who are the engineers you admire? Who mixed the albums you really like the sound on? These are who
you can seek out for information -- do they have books, like Bruce Sweiden? It's a place to start.
Reading is definitely something you need to do, especially to learn how your gear is supposed to
work and be used properly.

--fletch
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