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From: griesgraber on 24 Jun 2008 20:01
Hello all,

I run a small project studio and have a client who's looking for a
"warm vintage" vocal sound. The core of my rig are two Grace pres -
an 801 and a 201 through Lynx Aurora converters into Logic. I also
use a Toft ATB24 console, but have found the Grace's to be so superior
that I seldom track with the Toft Pres. I also have a GT Brick
sitting around.

The client is a female singer songwriter with a self-described
"whiskey voice." The arrangement is solo voice, acoustic guitar, and
clean electric guitar. After some initial tracking the client told me
that she's seeking more "vintage" sound for her voice, which I take to
mean a colored, warm sound with a tamed top end and a round low end.
I found the tracks that we did with the Grace (using a Gefell UMT70s)
to be exquisite in their detail, but I think the client maybe wants
something a little less honest.

I tried an AB test with the Grace and the Brick using the Gefell and
doing the vocals myself. The Brick is pleasant, but very different,
of course. What I am wondering, is if I want to take this a step
further, do those of you with experience think I will hear a
meaningful difference if I swap out the stock Groove Tubes 12AX7 and
12AT7 for NOS Telefunkens or RCAs or something? It occurs to me that
GT may develop their products with their own tubes in mind - and thus
their gear may sound best with their own tubes - but I am also aware
that some think that the build quality of old tubes was far superior.
Before I drop $50 and wait a week or two to order vintage tubes, I'm
curious if anyone has experience with this sort of thing, or even this
specific preamp (the Brick) using NOS tubes.

Thanks!
Steve

From: Mike Rivers on 24 Jun 2008 21:16
griesgraber(a)mindspring.com wrote:

> The client is a female singer songwriter with a self-described
> "whiskey voice." The arrangement is solo voice, acoustic guitar, and
> clean electric guitar. After some initial tracking the client told me
> that she's seeking more "vintage" sound for her voice, which I take to
> mean a colored, warm sound with a tamed top end and a round low end.

So, instead of all that high end stuff, did you try using the preamps in
the ATB console? You don't want detail, you want a little mush. And
maybe you need a different mic. Try an RE20 or a Beyer M160 since you
probably can't easily get your hands on a 77DX.




--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
(mriv...(a)d-and-d.com)
From: Paul Stamler on 24 Jun 2008 23:32
<griesgraber(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7ae42b29-716b-46cf-a969-4836df9a300d(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>
> I tried an AB test with the Grace and the Brick using the Gefell and
> doing the vocals myself. The Brick is pleasant, but very different,
> of course. What I am wondering, is if I want to take this a step
> further, do those of you with experience think I will hear a
> meaningful difference if I swap out the stock Groove Tubes 12AX7 and
> 12AT7 for NOS Telefunkens or RCAs or something? It occurs to me that
> GT may develop their products with their own tubes in mind - and thus
> their gear may sound best with their own tubes - but I am also aware
> that some think that the build quality of old tubes was far superior.
> Before I drop $50 and wait a week or two to order vintage tubes, I'm
> curious if anyone has experience with this sort of thing, or even this
> specific preamp (the Brick) using NOS tubes.

It will probably change the sound of the Brick, but whether you'll prefer
the new sound or the old sound is, frankly, anybody's guess.

The Brick, to my ears, is an okay preamp, but it's limited by a low input
impedance (great for SM57s, not so great for most condenser mics) and
dubious transformers. Where it shines, though, is as a DI; it's one of the
best sounding I've heard.

Peace,
Paul


From: Ty Ford on 25 Jun 2008 08:10
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:01:40 -0400, griesgraber(a)mindspring.com wrote
(in article
<7ae42b29-716b-46cf-a969-4836df9a300d(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>):

> Hello all,
>
> I run a small project studio and have a client who's looking for a
> "warm vintage" vocal sound. The core of my rig are two Grace pres -
> an 801 and a 201 through Lynx Aurora converters into Logic. I also
> use a Toft ATB24 console, but have found the Grace's to be so superior
> that I seldom track with the Toft Pres. I also have a GT Brick
> sitting around.
>
> The client is a female singer songwriter with a self-described
> "whiskey voice." The arrangement is solo voice, acoustic guitar, and
> clean electric guitar. After some initial tracking the client told me
> that she's seeking more "vintage" sound for her voice, which I take to
> mean a colored, warm sound with a tamed top end and a round low end.
> I found the tracks that we did with the Grace (using a Gefell UMT70s)
> to be exquisite in their detail, but I think the client maybe wants
> something a little less honest.
>
> I tried an AB test with the Grace and the Brick using the Gefell and
> doing the vocals myself. The Brick is pleasant, but very different,
> of course. What I am wondering, is if I want to take this a step
> further, do those of you with experience think I will hear a
> meaningful difference if I swap out the stock Groove Tubes 12AX7 and
> 12AT7 for NOS Telefunkens or RCAs or something? It occurs to me that
> GT may develop their products with their own tubes in mind - and thus
> their gear may sound best with their own tubes - but I am also aware
> that some think that the build quality of old tubes was far superior.
> Before I drop $50 and wait a week or two to order vintage tubes, I'm
> curious if anyone has experience with this sort of thing, or even this
> specific preamp (the Brick) using NOS tubes.
>
> Thanks!
> Steve
>

I have been recording with an AEA R84 with AEA TRP preamp recently.

You might want to try that. It sounds better than any ribbon mic I've used;
quieter, more top end than other ribbons, but nicely thick.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

From: griesgraber on 25 Jun 2008 14:41
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Scott, I will pick up a M67 -
can't go wrong for $10. Whether or not it works for her vocals, it's
always good to have some lo-fi gear on hand.

Mike, I'll also try an RE-20 through the Brick. Unfortunately, I
don't own or have easy access to an M160 or old RCA mic. I tried
using the Toft pres and decided that what they lack does not make for
an interesting sound - it just sounds lacking.

Paul, thanks for the tip on the impedance on the Brick - I'll
experiment with using dynamic mics instead of condensers.

Ty, thanks for the tips on the AEA stuff - unfortunately, their stuff
is out of my budget right now, but I'll look forward to hearing them
in the future.

Best,
Steve



On Jun 25, 8:10 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:01:40 -0400, griesgra...(a)mindspring.com wrote
> (in article
> <7ae42b29-716b-46cf-a969-4836df9a3...(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
>
> > Hello all,
>
> > I run a small project studio and have a client who's looking for a
> > "warm vintage" vocal sound.  The core of my rig are two Grace pres -
> > an 801 and a 201 through Lynx Aurora converters into Logic.  I also
> > use a Toft ATB24 console, but have found the Grace's to be so superior
> > that I seldom track with the Toft Pres.  I also have a GT Brick
> > sitting around.
>
> > The client is a female singer songwriter with a self-described
> > "whiskey voice."  The arrangement is solo voice, acoustic guitar, and
> > clean electric guitar.  After some initial tracking the client told me
> > that she's seeking more "vintage" sound for her voice, which I take to
> > mean a colored, warm sound with a tamed top end and a round low end.
> > I found the tracks that we did with the Grace (using a Gefell UMT70s)
> > to be exquisite in their detail, but I think the client maybe wants
> > something a little less honest.
>
> > I tried an AB test with the Grace and the Brick using the Gefell and
> > doing the vocals myself.  The Brick is pleasant, but very different,
> > of course.  What I am wondering, is if I want to take this a step
> > further, do those of you with experience think I will hear a
> > meaningful difference if I swap out the stock Groove Tubes 12AX7 and
> > 12AT7 for NOS Telefunkens or RCAs or something?  It occurs to me that
> > GT may develop their products with their own tubes in mind - and thus
> > their gear may sound best with their own tubes -  but I am also aware
> > that some think that the build quality of old tubes was far superior.
> > Before I drop $50 and wait a week or two to order vintage tubes, I'm
> > curious if anyone has experience with this sort of thing, or even this
> > specific preamp (the Brick) using NOS tubes.
>
> > Thanks!
> > Steve
>
> I have been recording with an AEA R84 with AEA TRP preamp recently.
>
> You might want to try that. It sounds better than any ribbon mic I've used;
> quieter, more top end than other ribbons, but  nicely thick.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
> Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

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