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From: Diogenes on 9 Jan 2008 03:00
Kind readers,

The first cut of this was originally posted in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets

I was dismissed as being off topic.

The reason for posting in 'stylesheets' was I felt
this group would be the most sensitive to the differences
between the browsers and what their respective audiences
were using.

So I repost again, this time with more specific information.
I may or may not have a point here, depending on how you read
this, and your general temperament.

================================================================

IE is losing market share because it is an inferior product. A number
of news articles (from google news) regarding the demise of the Netscape
browser cited FireFox as having 16% of market share.

I think that number is low. I provided a link to a site that more than
doubles that figure.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

I'm not saying these numbers are the final authority. It's
just one sample.

I manage 2 sites, one personal, the other commercial. Both are low
traffic. Here are their numbers for Dec, produced by AWSTATS:

Personal Comm
FireFox (all versions) 57% 68.5%
IE 39.2 24.4
Others 2.9 6.9

Granted, this is a very small sample, a selective audience, yada,
yada, yada, but I trust these numbers.

I was wondering what other are experiencing on their 100K
visitors/month website.

I imagine that the FF usage in Europe is MUCH higher that 16%.

FWIW, another twist to all of this is that Microsoft is using the
demise of Netscape an an argument in court that an extension of its
'anti-trust oversight' should NOT be extended. The original reasons
for this oversight have disappeared (NS is gone).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/03/microsoft_scoffs_antitrust_extention_seekers/

My recent experience in buying computers in the retail market in
Calgary, Canada, is that Microsoft Vista is the ONLY windows OS
on offer and IE is the only browser installed on these whiz bang
machines that do everything with almost everything pre-installed
(including stuff you don't want).

You have to pull strings to get XP, for instance, and download FF
yourself. Right? Please tell me I'm wrong.

It's not the Adam Smith 'invisible hand' that is guiding the market
here, it's the invisible hand of Bill Gates.

One last link, by John Dovorak, says it better than I ever can.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2246368,00.asp


Cheers
-Dio

From: The Natural Philosopher on 9 Jan 2008 03:30
Diogenes wrote:
> Kind readers,
>
> The first cut of this was originally posted in
> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets
>
> I was dismissed as being off topic.
>
> The reason for posting in 'stylesheets' was I felt
> this group would be the most sensitive to the differences
> between the browsers and what their respective audiences
> were using.
>
> So I repost again, this time with more specific information.
> I may or may not have a point here, depending on how you read
> this, and your general temperament.
>
> ================================================================
>
> IE is losing market share because it is an inferior product. A number
> of news articles (from google news) regarding the demise of the Netscape
> browser cited FireFox as having 16% of market share.
>
> I think that number is low. I provided a link to a site that more than
> doubles that figure.
>
> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
>
> I'm not saying these numbers are the final authority. It's
> just one sample.
>
> I manage 2 sites, one personal, the other commercial. Both are low
> traffic. Here are their numbers for Dec, produced by AWSTATS:
>
> Personal Comm
> FireFox (all versions) 57% 68.5%
> IE 39.2 24.4
> Others 2.9 6.9
>
> Granted, this is a very small sample, a selective audience, yada,
> yada, yada, but I trust these numbers.
>

I can't offer data,but can offer a view.

I think that powerusers who surf a lot tend to use Firefox to do it.

Whereas the people who just buy a computer and give it to their kids to
get seduced by paedophiles,.will tend to leave it just the way it came
out of the box.

I suspect if you went to google, my tube or facebook, the stats would be
very different.



> I was wondering what other are experiencing on their 100K
> visitors/month website.
>
> I imagine that the FF usage in Europe is MUCH higher that 16%.
>
> FWIW, another twist to all of this is that Microsoft is using the
> demise of Netscape an an argument in court that an extension of its
> 'anti-trust oversight' should NOT be extended. The original reasons
> for this oversight have disappeared (NS is gone).
>

As will MS in a few more years..


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/03/microsoft_scoffs_antitrust_extention_seekers/
>
>
> My recent experience in buying computers in the retail market in
> Calgary, Canada, is that Microsoft Vista is the ONLY windows OS
> on offer and IE is the only browser installed on these whiz bang
> machines that do everything with almost everything pre-installed
> (including stuff you don't want).
>

Yup. The world is full of users who want XP or even 2000, and can't get it.

> You have to pull strings to get XP, for instance, and download FF
> yourself. Right? Please tell me I'm wrong.
>
> It's not the Adam Smith 'invisible hand' that is guiding the market
> here, it's the invisible hand of Bill Gates.
>
It was always the marketing arm. Bill is actually not a bad guy, he just
listened to too many corporate bullshit artists.


> One last link, by John Dovorak, says it better than I ever can.
>
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2246368,00.asp
>
>
> Cheers
> -Dio
>
From: Sherman Pendley on 9 Jan 2008 10:09
The Natural Philosopher <a(a)b.c> writes:

> I can't offer data,but can offer a view.
>
> I think that powerusers who surf a lot tend to use Firefox to do it.
>
> Whereas the people who just buy a computer and give it to their kids
> to get seduced by paedophiles,.will tend to leave it just the way it
> came out of the box.
>
> I suspect if you went to google, my tube or facebook, the stats would
> be very different.

I suspect you're right. It's all about your audience.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
From: Randy Webb on 9 Jan 2008 16:43
Diogenes said the following on 1/9/2008 3:00 AM:
> Kind readers,
>
> The first cut of this was originally posted in
> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets
>
> I was dismissed as being off topic.

Your anti-MS rants are just as off topic in comp.lang.javascript as they
are in ciwas.

You reply and tell me what it has to do with Javascript and I will be
happy to debunk the many myths in your post.

<snip>

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
From: Diogenes on 9 Jan 2008 23:06
Randy Webb wrote:
> Your anti-MS rants are just as off topic in comp.lang.javascript as they
> are in ciwas.
>
> You reply and tell me what it has to do with Javascript and I will be
> happy to debunk the many myths in your post.
>

Javascript is client side programming that will work, for the most
part, with all modern browsers without resorting to special
code that targets a specific browser.

Exceptions to this include embedded sound and video objects and
code that employs programming colliquisms such as 'document.all'.

Over to you RANDY WEBB ... yes, the many myths? I'll be satisfied
if you offer 3.

-Dio
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