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From: Evenbit on 5 Apr 2006 18:20
When caveman Uhg invented fire, he had some trouble-makers bothering
him.

One trouble-maker was Grr, the academician. Grr hounded Uhg with many
questions. Did you use both hands while rubbing the sticks together?
Where is your academic treaties explaining your research and how the
rubbing of sticks brings forth fire? Did you do all the necessary
experiments to determine if this is the proper and safe way to heat a
cave? Can you point to the spot in the Scroll of the Learned where it
says that you can use a stick in that manner?

The clan kicked Grr out of the cave and he froze to death that winter.

Another trouble-maker was Oof, the merchant. Since Oof's legs were
eaten by a sabertooth tiger, he could not join the others in hunting
and food gathering. Instead, he spent his time crawling near his cave
to find colorful, shinny pebbles which he polished and gave to the
female species in exchange for food. Oof claimed that since most
members of the clan spent the majority of their time hunting and
gathering food, that they could not be experts in the making of fire.
He proposed the idea that only he and Uhg be allowed to start a fire
and anyone who needed a fire in their cave should pay a tribute of food
to have one started.

The entire clan agreed that Oof be allowed to sell all the fire that he
wants to sell. Then they relocated him to a cave in an area that was
devoid of any sticks or other items that might burn. Oof froze to
death that winter.

[This story is translated from versus 14 to 27 of Chapter Zero of
Genesis - the recently rediscovered Chronicles of Uhg.]

Somehow, throughout history, mankind managed to change the way the clan
works and we now have three classes of society in this modern structure
we call civilization. One class is real: the hobby class. The other
two are artificial: the merchant/industry class and the academic
class. The merchant/industry class strives to meet the needs of the
masses but puts its own interests first. Inventions seem to arise from
the merchant/industry class. The purpose of the academic class is to
prepare members of the hobby class for participation in the
merchant/industry class. The academic class also seems to advance the
state of the art by way of inventions. The hobbyist simply invents.
In fact, all inventions come from the hobby class - because it is the
hobbyist that makes up the academic and merchant/industry class.
Without the hobby class, the other two classes simply would not exist.

Inventions tend to challenge conventional thinking and standard
practices on a subject. It is then understandable that unconventional
ideas are often attacked by both those who hold to conventional
approaches and by those who hold to other unconventional ideas. Fear
is the motivation for these attacks. Inventors feel threatened by
continued use of a conventional idea or the growing use of another's
unconventional idea. There have been many examples in this newgroup
where an inventor issues a direct (or indirect) attack against those he
feels threatened by.


Nathan.

From: Charles A. Crayne on 5 Apr 2006 18:53
On 5 Apr 2006 15:20:58 -0700
"Evenbit" <nbaker2328(a)charter.net> wrote:

:It is then understandable that unconventional
:ideas are often attacked by both those who hold to conventional
:approaches and by those who hold to other unconventional ideas.

"It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more
doubtful of success nor more dangerous to manage than the creation of a
new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who profit by the
preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those
who would gain by the new one."
-- Nicolo Machiavelli
From: Chewy509 on 5 Apr 2006 19:17

Evenbit wrote:
> When caveman Uhg invented fire, he had some trouble-makers bothering
> him.
>
> One trouble-maker was Grr, the academician. Grr hounded Uhg with many
> questions. Did you use both hands while rubbing the sticks together?
> Where is your academic treaties explaining your research and how the
> rubbing of sticks brings forth fire? Did you do all the necessary
> experiments to determine if this is the proper and safe way to heat a
> cave? Can you point to the spot in the Scroll of the Learned where it
> says that you can use a stick in that manner?
>
> The clan kicked Grr out of the cave and he froze to death that winter.
>
> Another trouble-maker was Oof, the merchant. Since Oof's legs were
> eaten by a sabertooth tiger, he could not join the others in hunting
> and food gathering. Instead, he spent his time crawling near his cave
> to find colorful, shinny pebbles which he polished and gave to the
> female species in exchange for food. Oof claimed that since most
> members of the clan spent the majority of their time hunting and
> gathering food, that they could not be experts in the making of fire.
> He proposed the idea that only he and Uhg be allowed to start a fire
> and anyone who needed a fire in their cave should pay a tribute of food
> to have one started.
>
> The entire clan agreed that Oof be allowed to sell all the fire that he
> wants to sell. Then they relocated him to a cave in an area that was
> devoid of any sticks or other items that might burn. Oof froze to
> death that winter.
>
> [This story is translated from versus 14 to 27 of Chapter Zero of
> Genesis - the recently rediscovered Chronicles of Uhg.]
>
> Somehow, throughout history, mankind managed to change the way the clan
> works and we now have three classes of society in this modern structure
> we call civilization. One class is real: the hobby class. The other
> two are artificial: the merchant/industry class and the academic
> class. The merchant/industry class strives to meet the needs of the
> masses but puts its own interests first. Inventions seem to arise from
> the merchant/industry class. The purpose of the academic class is to
> prepare members of the hobby class for participation in the
> merchant/industry class. The academic class also seems to advance the
> state of the art by way of inventions. The hobbyist simply invents.
> In fact, all inventions come from the hobby class - because it is the
> hobbyist that makes up the academic and merchant/industry class.
> Without the hobby class, the other two classes simply would not exist.
>
> Inventions tend to challenge conventional thinking and standard
> practices on a subject. It is then understandable that unconventional
> ideas are often attacked by both those who hold to conventional
> approaches and by those who hold to other unconventional ideas. Fear
> is the motivation for these attacks. Inventors feel threatened by
> continued use of a conventional idea or the growing use of another's
> unconventional idea. There have been many examples in this newgroup
> where an inventor issues a direct (or indirect) attack against those he
> feels threatened by.
>
Hi Nathan,

Well said!

--
Darran (aka Chewy509) brought to you by Google Groups!

From: Rod Pemberton on 6 Apr 2006 08:47

"Evenbit" <nbaker2328(a)charter.net> wrote in message
news:1144275658.085753.33440(a)v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
....
> There have been many examples in this newgroup
> where an inventor issues a direct (or indirect) attack against those he
> feels threatened by.

This newsgroup is polite when compared to comp.lang.c. There are _many_
ignornant and arrogant individuals there which results in extreme arguments.
But, yes I agree with you: Betov constantly insults Randall Hyde, and
Randall Hyde incessantly wastes his own time replying to Betov (and I've
made note of this before, with a different quote from Machiavelli). I no
longer read any message that has both of them involved.


Rod Pemberton


From: Dragontamer on 6 Apr 2006 19:56

Evenbit wrote:

> Somehow, throughout history, mankind managed to change the way the clan
> works and we now have three classes of society in this modern structure
> we call civilization. One class is real: the hobby class. The other
> two are artificial: the merchant/industry class and the academic
> class. The merchant/industry class strives to meet the needs of the
> masses but puts its own interests first. Inventions seem to arise from
> the merchant/industry class. The purpose of the academic class is to
> prepare members of the hobby class for participation in the
> merchant/industry class. The academic class also seems to advance the
> state of the art by way of inventions. The hobbyist simply invents.
> In fact, all inventions come from the hobby class - because it is the
> hobbyist that makes up the academic and merchant/industry class.
> Without the hobby class, the other two classes simply would not exist.

I disagree actually; hate to be the first to do so.

Merchants/Industry today provide the tools necessary for the hobby to
create
new works. Frankly speaking, without the merchants/industry, we
wouldn't
have the computers built for us. And take it one step further, without
someone
selling the rouge computer parts to early hobbists, they wouldn't have
been
able to even build a computer.

If a given industry fails to please the public; if it isn't convenient
enough, or
better than "the normal way of doing things", the industry simply dies
off. For example,
Fax Machines in the early 90s. Some businesses were able to survive
by simply having a fax machine that you can send stuff too. Now-a-days,

the industry has long since died off; email and personal fax machines
have
long replaced normal Fax machines.

Industry provides the tools for hobbiests.

Yes; everyone hates the industry cause we can't live without them. But
simply put:
we can't live without them. Lest we wanna grow food in our back yards
ourself :-/
Or maybe create an Intel Chip ourself? No, sorry, it simply doesn't
work like that.

Basically: Without the merchants/industry, the hobbiests would be too
busy
farming, let alone inventing.

Academia provides "quick" knowledge; while you aren't the best
overnight in a subject, it is much faster to learn say, that Gravity is
9.8 m/s^2
rather than testing it yourself all the time. It is much more efficient
to say,
read a Physics textbook to learn Physics, than it is to try and do it
all
for yourself.

Basically; it is much faster to learn using books, education system,
and
so forth than to self-teach. No knowledge exists in a vaccum. In fact,
it
is impossible to teach yourself some subjects, including (2nd)
languages.

What I'm getting to say is: Hobbiests wouldnt survive without business,
and
hobbiests need more academics than you let on.

--Dragontamer

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