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From: measekite on 15 Jun 2008 12:21


Arthur Entlich wrote:
> I'm so glad I rarely see Meathead's posts unless they are quoted by
> someone else, since I filter his nonsense.
I have to wade through the holee than thou many times before reading
something useful. He even responds to many posts with the premise he
knows nothing about the subject.
>
> The 2400 does allow you to switch between a matte and a photo black,
> so that with matte papers you can get a denser black.
You replace the black ink cart. There are more carts than channels.
> Yes, it does require a purging process of all the inks when you switch
> between the two black inks,
That is what I said.
> (which could have been designed better to avoid some of that) but
> because the cartridges are directly attached to the head of the
> printer, and since Epson heads hold very little ink internally, the
> amount of ink lost is no greater than when the printer gets a new
> cartridge installed after one runs out of ink.

>
> What Meathead
I do not know who this jerk is referring to. I did not read a post from
any Meathead.

Read information from: http://luminous-landscape.com/

They are very knowledgeable on this subject. I do not think you will
get an argument on that subject.
> is probably referring to is some of the extra wide carriage printers
> which use tube to feed the remote cartridge to the head. Some of
> those units can waste a fair bit of ink when a black ink exchange
> occurs. The newer models have changed this process, and some even
> have both the black matte and photo inks installed at the same time.
>
>
> Art
>
> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:
>
> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/
Read luminous landscape and not trash.
>
> Aftermarketink(a)gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jun 13, 12:16 pm, measekite <inkysti...(a)oem.com> wrote:
>>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you planning on printing color only, or some black and white, and
>>>> do you plan on going for high gloss surface or matte printing?
>>>> The reason I ask is because, the 1800 is great for high gamut brighter
>>>> color work which is printed on higher gloss surfaces, and it offers a
>>>> gloss optimizer to even out the gloss surface while using pigment
>>>> inks, but it has problems creating a neutral black and white image.
>>>> The 2100/2200 does a better job with matte prints and black and white.
>>>> Also, be aware the 2400 is soon to be replaced by the 2880, so it may
>>>> also enter the used market. The 2400 is the best of the bunch in the
>>>> Eposn line.
>>> Not it is NOT. There are more carts than ink channels. When you
>>> switch
>>> the photo black for the matte black you need to purge and reload the
>>> printer. It costs many dollars to switch. I think there may be
>>> reviews
>>> inwww.luminiouslandscape.com
>>
>> Art is correct. I own an Epson 2400 and it does a great job. I find
>> the prints better than my Canon Pro9000.
You do not compare a Canon Pro9000 with an Epson 2400. You compare a
Canon Pro9500 with an Epson 2400. Dye printers produce a more vivid
colors and the results have more punch especially on glossy papers and
many matte papers. Pigment printers produce results that are claimed to
last longer and are more fade resistant but dye is catching up. I do
not know if they are there yet.

The Canon Pro9500 gets better ink mileage and prints faster. I have
read that the results are comparable.
>> The only reason I still have
>> the Canon Pro9000 is that it is easier to refill.
That is a stupid reason. Smart people buy a printer to produce great
results not to refill easier. And the Canon Pro9000 with Canon ink does
produce great results. But without the benefit of Canon ink I am sure
the Epson 2400 with Epson ink is better.
From: Staffbull on 15 Jun 2008 15:54
On 13 Jun, 14:25, Arthur Entlich <e-printerh...(a)mvps.org> wrote:
> Are you planning on printing color only, or some black and white, and do
> you plan on going for high gloss surface or matte printing?
>
> The reason I ask is because, the 1800 is great for high gamut brighter
> color work which is printed on higher gloss surfaces, and it offers a
> gloss optimizer to even out the gloss surface while using pigment inks,
> but it has problems creating a neutral black and white image.
>
> The 2100/2200 does a better job with matte prints and black and white.
>
> Also, be aware the 2400 is soon to be replaced by the 2880, so it may
> also enter the used market.  The 2400 is the best of the bunch in the
> Eposn line.  Still using pigment inks, it uses a three density black ink
> set for very neutral B&W prints.  It appears to be very reliable, as is
> the 2100/2200.
>
> Art
>
> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
>    I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:
>
>        http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/
>
>
>
> Staffbull wrote:
> > Hi, I'm after buying a second hand A3 inkjet, looking like Epson as
> > inks are cheaper to source and CISS systems aplenty.
>
> >  which ones are worth having?
>
> > I'm looking at either the 2100 or the 1800
>
> > any advice?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi, 50/50 mix of colour/B&W. landscapes mainly. I will be certainly
looking into the CIS systems as they seem exellent (if they work?)
I just need something to print off pics I take woth my Olympue E410,
as I have just got back into photography with DSLR.
thanks again
From: Arthur Entlich on 16 Jun 2008 07:46
If you are looking at a CIS, I would suggest considering the 2200 or
2400 over the 1800. mainly because you will probably have difficulty
finding a 3rd party ink set for the 1800 which will be accurate, without
a lot of profiling.

The 1800 is not great for neutral B&W, relative to the other Epson
models. The 2200/2400 both are superior for paper varieties.

Art



If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Staffbull wrote:
> On 13 Jun, 14:25, Arthur Entlich <e-printerh...(a)mvps.org> wrote:
>> Are you planning on printing color only, or some black and white, and do
>> you plan on going for high gloss surface or matte printing?
>>
>> The reason I ask is because, the 1800 is great for high gamut brighter
>> color work which is printed on higher gloss surfaces, and it offers a
>> gloss optimizer to even out the gloss surface while using pigment inks,
>> but it has problems creating a neutral black and white image.
>>
>> The 2100/2200 does a better job with matte prints and black and white.
>>
>> Also, be aware the 2400 is soon to be replaced by the 2880, so it may
>> also enter the used market. The 2400 is the best of the bunch in the
>> Eposn line. Still using pigment inks, it uses a three density black ink
>> set for very neutral B&W prints. It appears to be very reliable, as is
>> the 2100/2200.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
>> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:
>>
>> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Staffbull wrote:
>>> Hi, I'm after buying a second hand A3 inkjet, looking like Epson as
>>> inks are cheaper to source and CISS systems aplenty.
>>> which ones are worth having?
>>> I'm looking at either the 2100 or the 1800
>>> any advice?- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi, 50/50 mix of colour/B&W. landscapes mainly. I will be certainly
> looking into the CIS systems as they seem exellent (if they work?)
> I just need something to print off pics I take woth my Olympue E410,
> as I have just got back into photography with DSLR.
> thanks again
From: Aftermarketink on 16 Jun 2008 07:58
On Jun 15, 12:21 pm, measekite <inkysti...(a)oem.com> wrote:

>
> You do not compare a Canon Pro9000 with an Epson 2400.  You compare a
> Canon Pro9500 with an Epson 2400.  Dye printers produce a more vivid
> colors and the results have more punch especially on glossy papers and
> many matte papers.  Pigment printers produce results that are claimed to
> last longer and are more fade resistant but dye is catching up.  I do
> not know  if they are there yet.

What? You have know clue what your talking about. I compare the Canon
Pro9000 to the Epson R2400. The Epson R2400 produces better results.
Do you even own one of these printers?

> The Canon Pro9500 gets better ink mileage and prints faster.  I have
> read that the results are comparable.>> The only reason I still have
> >> the Canon Pro9000 is that it is easier to refill.
>
> That is a stupid reason.  Smart people buy a printer to produce great
> results not to refill easier.  

Then what's your reason? Read the post on this fourn...lots of people
buy printers to refill...and Canon is one of the easiest.

> And the Canon Pro9000 with Canon ink does
> produce great results.  But without the benefit of Canon ink I am sure
> the Epson 2400 with Epson ink is better.- Hide quoted text -

With or without the Epson R2400 is better. Canon printers are not know
as pro printers. Canon just uses the word pro in thier name.
From: PhotoSci on 16 Jun 2008 11:56
The image stability of an ink jet ink depends first on the inherent
stability of the basic chemical structure of the colorant. Given
colorants of similar stability, then pigments are likely to have
greater stability than the corresponding soluble dyes. To make life
even more complicated, an additional question is "stable towards
what?". Most people focus on light stability, but over 95% of images
eventually end up in the dark and unless you're storing your images in
a freezer, thermal stability, along with stability towards polluting
gases (largely ozone) and humidity resistance, is important even as
your pictures are on display. The fact that an ink has good light
stability does not mean it's highly stable towards these other
factors. Finally, the paper you print on plays a role. Some papers let
ozone in more easily than others, for example.

While there are some high quality after-market inks out there, they
usually are not the ones selling for low prices, but those aimed at
the fine arts market.

Pay attention to all four degredation factors and be suspicious of any
tests from anybody where all four are not listed. Don't fall for
advertising claims (and they are out there) where lifetimes are based
on light fade alone, pigments or no pigments.
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