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From: Andrei Popescu on 4 May 2008 18:10
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 05:00:53AM +0200, s. keeling wrote:
> Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <ekalin(a)gmail.com>:
> > s. keeling wrote:
> > > Dotan Cohen <dotancohen(a)gmail.com>:
> > >
> > >> Why are you against switching to UTF-8? Disk space? There really is
> > >
> > > Why would I be _for_ switching? I'm a unilingual [Anglophone]. utf-8
> >
> > Even if you used a language with a few accented characters (French,
> > Spanish, Polish, etc.), your files would only change with regards to
> > those characters (which would take 2 instead of one byte - but you could
> > have French and Polish in the same file, for example). The difference is
> > minimal, and, for English only, inexistent.
>
> I'm still wondering where the argument _for_ this is. I'm doing
> Anglaise and nothing else, and you can easily handle that there.
> Rhetorical, but why would I want to go utf-8? I can see little point
> in it in my situation.

Here is an argument for you: using ascii is delaying the adoption of
utf-8.

Let me elaborate. Romanian is using a few special characters (a,i,s and
t with diacritics) which are only available in utf-8 (and maybe
iso-8852-16?). To make things worse, MS implemented the wrong characters
(from iso-8852-2) up to XP and only corrected this in Vista (and a
recent update for XP).

Right now we have the following situation: some people use the special
characters when writing, but they mostly use the wrong ones. Others
(the majority) don't use them at all (making Romanian texts difficult to
read, because without the diacritics many words look the same) because
it's too much trouble. Even if you configure your own computer to show
them right, you never know what other people are using.

Switching everybody to utf-8 would be the best and simplest solution.

Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
From: Andrei Popescu on 5 May 2008 03:30
On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 10:02:03AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:

> You are 100% correct, Andrei. See those Hebrew letters at the bottom
> of every post I make? It's to build a database of wrongly-encoded

No. I didn't trim anything from what you wrote. What am I missing?

> Hebrew when people reply, so that I can decode messages from people
> who are not using UTF-8. It's a huge problem, one that I'm trying to
> help deal with on the http://gibberish.co.il website.
>
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
From: Kevin Buhr on 6 May 2008 22:20
"Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty(a)porchlight.ca> writes:
>>
>> The problem isn't the manpage author, it's your setup.
>>
>> Specifically, you're using a locale that sports UTF-8 encoding, but
>
> wrong. Lang=C. I don't have any locales installed. This is regular
> stock VT (no fonts, etc).

Well, let's put it this way. Create a text file named "test.1"
containing the following:

..TH TEST "1"
..SH NAME
test \- it's elementary

Now, run "man -l test.1". Does your fontless, stock VT show an ASCII
apostrophe or a little block?

If it shows a block, your setup is broken, no matter what LANG is set
to.

If it shows an ASCII apostrophe, I would be grateful if you could send
me the name of a stock Debian manpage that shows a block instead of an
apostrophe (preferably with its owning package name and version, if
you aren't using plain Etch). I would very much like to track down
the problem and file bug reports on the offending manpages.

Thanks.

--
Kevin Buhr <buhr+debian(a)asaurus.net>


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From: Andrei Popescu on 5 May 2008 13:10
On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 10:49:44AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/5/5 Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu(a)gmail.com>:
> >> You are 100% correct, Andrei. See those Hebrew letters at the bottom
> >> of every post I make? It's to build a database of wrongly-encoded
> >
> > No. I didn't trim anything from what you wrote. What am I missing?
> >
>
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Is this a joke or am I missing something obvious? (wikipedia only shows
a Hebrew diacritic, Patach, that looks like a dash)

Regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
From: Christer Oldhoff on 5 May 2008 13:50
Hello Andrei,

On 2008-05-05, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 10:49:44AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> 2008/5/5 Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu(a)gmail.com>:
>> >> You are 100% correct, Andrei. See those Hebrew letters at the bottom
>> >> of every post I make? It's to build a database of wrongly-encoded
>> >
>> > No. I didn't trim anything from what you wrote. What am I missing?
>> >
>>
>> ?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?
>>
In the 'raw' version of the mail, the beginning of the above line reads:

=D7=90-=D7=91-=D7=92-=D7=93-=D7=94-=D7=95-=D7=96-=D7=97-=D7=98-=D7=99-

For example, 0xD7 0x90 is the UTF-8 encoding for the Hebrew letter aleph.
> [...]
> Is this a joke or am I missing something obvious? (wikipedia only shows
> a Hebrew diacritic, Patach, that looks like a dash)
>
So, there are UTF-8-encoded chars there which some of us do not see.

Regards,
--
Christer
Email: coldhoff(a)swipnet.se


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