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From: Bruno Desthuilliers on 21 Apr 2010 09:46
Bryan a écrit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> Nope. I want to keep all my settings parsed, my librairies loaded, all
>> my connections opened etc. That is, all the time consuming stuff at app
>> startup - which, with PHP, mostly happens for each and every request.
>
> O.K. I wasn't clear on your objection. As I said the first time, I
> think you've gotten some bad info on PHP.

Well, I have to admit I've only used it professionnaly for the past 6
years or so, so my knowledge may be a bit lacking...

>
>> Many large, sopĥisticated etc applications are written in C. Does that
>> make C a practical application programming language ?
>
> It's at least a strong clue.

Oh, yes ? Then why don't you use C for web programming ?-)

From: Tim Chase on 21 Apr 2010 10:34
On 04/21/2010 08:46 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Bryan a écrit :
>> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>> Many large, sopĥisticated etc applications are written in C. Does that
>>> make C a practical application programming language ?
>>
>> It's at least a strong clue.
>
> Oh, yes ? Then why don't you use C for web programming ?-)

Many large, sophisticated etc applications are written in COBOL
too. I'm sure it makes a practical web programming language
too... ;-)

-tkc



From: Bryan on 21 Apr 2010 14:37
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Bryan a écrit :
>
> > Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> >> Nope. I want to keep all my settings parsed, my librairies loaded, all
> >> my connections opened etc. That is, all the time consuming stuff at app
> >> startup - which, with PHP, mostly happens for each and every request.
>
> > O.K. I wasn't clear on your objection. As I said the first time, I
> > think you've gotten some bad info on PHP.
>
> Well, I have to admit I've only used it professionnaly for the past 6
> years or so, so my knowledge may be a bit lacking...

Competent PHP developers know how to cache libraries and various
connections and configurations. If that's been a stumbling point if
your own work, well, again, Google is your friend.

> >> Many large, sopĥisticated etc applications are written in C. Does that
> >> make C a practical application programming language ?
>
> > It's at least a strong clue.
>
> Oh, yes ? Then why don't you use C for web programming ?-)

Did you forget what you argued? Had you said that PHP is impractical
for writing operating systems, I would have silently agreed. You wrote
the howler: "The PHP execution model (mostly based on CGI FWIW) tends
to be a bit unpractical for non-trivial applications".

PHP *rocks* for serious web apps. PHP is specifically designed for web
apps. PHP became a major-league programming language *soley* on its
strength and success in building web apps. Popular as PHP is, it
"tends to be a bit unpractical" for anything but web apps.

'Round here we love Python. I prefer Python to Perl or PHP even in
those languages' particular areas of specialization. Advocating for
Python does not require spreading myths about PHP.

--
--Bryan
From: Emile van Sebille on 21 Apr 2010 15:09
On 4/21/2010 11:37 AM Bryan said...
> 'Round here we love Python. I prefer Python to Perl or PHP even in
> those languages' particular areas of specialization. Advocating for
> Python does not require spreading myths about PHP.

You're missing the point -- set-up and tear-down overhead is involved
for both python and php cgi based web serving, and Bruno I'm sure would
concur that python in this suffers similarly. You point at exactly the
issue when you noted earlier:

Bryan> I think I see what you mean -- correct me if
Bryan> I'm wrong: You want to keep complex application
Bryan> data structures around between requests. That
Bryan> sounds appealing in terms of efficiency, but
Bryan> it's bad for scalability and robustness.

It's more than appealing -- for example, it's fact with Zope, where Zeo
adds the scalability.

Emile






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