comments on the new "treebrowser" for 50G
in [HP48]
|
From: Joel Koltner on 10 Apr 2008 13:01 "Andreas M�ller" <andreas_moellerNOSPAM(a)gmx.de> wrote in message news:e0c2e23b-8f06-44a2-8640-fb752d108866(a)f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... "And, of course, every price depends on the law of supply and demand." Let me be the first to suggest that by dropping your price there's a good chance you'll actually make more money, Andreas. I'm sure you've seen the standard bell curve where, if you charge $0 you make no money, if you charge $1k you make no money because no one buys, and somewhere inbetween there's a peak... I think at $50 you're to the right of that peak. As I mentioned, I wouldn't personally drop $50 on TreeBrowser when I have to machines to support -- so you're making $0 -- but I would at least consider paying $25 twice. $20 twice would be even better... ---Joel
From: Andreas Möller on 10 Apr 2008 16:16 Hello Joel, your suggestions are most welcome. Yes, of course I know the standard normal distribution curve. And there are several other curves dicussing prices. Back in university we had a whole bunch of them. But you also have to consider the following facts for the price: For distribution a medium -the SD card- is needed (which you can use with the calculator after the installation) for delivering the software. Now I have to buy this in Germany and pay it in Euros. Of course in the U.S. this has to be sold in Dollars which is constantly dropping compared to the Euro. There is still my normal business day where I earn my money with and which takes most of my time. So I do not have the time to do the sales all by myself. And of course the dealer has to earn something with it, too. It comes with printed manuals as a booklet (42 pages) and installation instructions, taking away the hassle for a newbie of installing the libs as this is done through an installation routine (Just consider the always upcoming question about installing libraries in this forum. And if you even go to the support forum of HP look at the questions that are asked there.) Also I am delivering free updates and will continue developing the program because programming in sys-rpl and Saturn-ASM is challenging and fun and because there is a lot of heart and soul and passion in it from my side. Just replace the updated file on the SD card, delete the libs on the calc and rerun the installation program from the card and the update is done (By the way, when was the last time HP offered a new ROM ?). And, last but not least, support has to be given for already sold versions. To be fair there are two prices to compare at this moment: $39.95 for those that already have a calculator. $34.95 if bought together with a new calc. Now subtract from the $34.95 the price of the card in Euros, subtract the price of the booklet, subtract something the dealer must earn and you will find out yourself that my main concern is *not* making money with it. Fine you might say, I already have two calculators and do not need the two SD cards. Then drop me a mail so that we can discuss this privately and what can be done about it or how you can obtain a demo version for a test. And after that I am sure that I can quote you as a testimonial. Concerning your suggestions about the license please consider the fact that I am also limited to hardware restrictions. If you know of a better way, please share it with me. And as you stated correctly I am not Micro$oft and so far maximizing my profits has not been my main ambition. So far it was fun in programming ;-) The likelihood of big trusts dropping entire product lines (for what reason ever) can easily be seen by looking at the past. DEC and Compaq just jumps into my mind while thinking about HP, but this will get us off topic. On the other hands there are small and medium businesses that still exist while trusts have come and gone... Again, this is getting off topic. And remember the talks and rumors about HP dropping their entire calculator business a couple of years ago. Thanks for you contribution and I hope the discussion will continue. Greetings, Andreas P.S. Please remember that this E-mail address is not valid. Remove the nospam !
From: Joel Koltner on 10 Apr 2008 20:09 "Andreas M�ller" <andreas_moellerNOSPAM(a)gmx.de> wrote in message news:b4bb3ebf-0394-4b58-8181-406ae4c9317f(a)1g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > But you also have to consider the following facts for the price: > For distribution a medium -the SD card- is needed Why is this? Plenty of companies just have you download the (on-the-fly customized/licensed to you personally) version of the software immediately after payment. I'd really rather not buy Yet Another SD Card anyway -- I have plenty. > There is still my normal business day where I earn my money with and > which takes most of my time. So I do not have the time to do the sales > all by myself. And of course the dealer has to earn something with it, > too. Do you really need a dealer for something like this? What "value add" do they provide you? > (Just consider > the always upcoming question about installing libraries in this forum. > And if you even go to the support forum of HP look at the questions > that are asked there.) If you've already gone to the significant effort to write up 42 pages of documentation, I suspect you could do a much better job detailing library installation than HP did. :-) > (By the way, when was the last time HP offered a > new ROM ?). A long time ago, but their updates were free as well. Personally I'm more interested in getting a bug-fixed 35s than squashing the last few bugs in the 50g anyway, since it's powerful enough that AFAIK there aren't any particularly severe ones that are left or at least can't be readily worked around. > And, last but not least, support has to be given for already sold > versions. Yes. > Now subtract from the $34.95 the price of the card in Euros, subtract > the price of the booklet, subtract something the dealer must earn and > you will find out yourself that my main concern is *not* making money > with it. With an SD card, I agree that $35 isn't bad. But why not offer the non-SD card version for those who want it? You'll probably even make more money that way since, as I mentioned, I'd gladly pay $20 and perhaps even $25 for it. To avoid the problems of begineers not knowing how to install libraries, you can create a little "test" download that just has a "Hello, world!" library in it and strongly caution/urge people to be sure they can successfully download and use the "test" library, mentioning that you don't have the resources to support people who just can't get it to work... and steering them back to the SD card option. > And remember the talks and rumors about HP dropping their entire > calculator business a couple of years ago. Despite all the bravado at HHC last year, it doesn't appear that HP is really all that committed to calculators. I do think JYA and that-calculator-group-manager-guy are talented, dedicated and hard-working, they just don't have a whole lot of corporate support behind them. > Thanks for you contribution and I hope the discussion will continue. Certainly, thank you for a most reasonable reply. ---Joel
From: username localhost on 11 Apr 2008 02:15 On Apr 10, 8:09 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Despite all the bravado at HHC last year, it doesn't appear that HP is really > all that committed to calculators. I do think JYA and > that-calculator-group-manager-guy are talented, dedicated and hard-working, > they just don't have a whole lot of corporate support behind them. I'm sure JYA has the full support of Hydrix behind him, but I'm also fairly sure that Hydrix would not continue to develop the HP calculator line, in whole or part without being contracted by HP to do so. While I am unclear exactly how much of the work on the HP50g as well as the later edditions of the 49g+ was done by Hydrix under contract, I believe the Qonos project proved that they would be capable of continuing the HP tradition in a calculator series (although that project obviously deviated somewhat from the tradition itself), but Hydrix (like many other consultancy companies) lack the resources to actually develop, launch, and market a product line on their own. Thus the best hope for a continuation is to convince HP to wake-up and fully commit to their calculator line. Barring that, the next best hope is for another established company to contract hydrix and friends (other former HP calc-department employees) for the production of more calulators in the tradition of the existing ones, possibly even buying out the HP calculator division allowing the resulting calculators to be true HP series calculators in relality rather than just tradition. But who? TI honestly views calculators are primarily educational tools, not generally used by professionals. Casio would just make a mess of things. Sharp probably would too. Honestly, only one company comes to mind as being able to pull it off, but IBM really intends to be primarally a consultancy company itself, and has little interest in expending its limited line of products sold to consumers (rather than to businesses). Perhaps somebody else knows of annoither company that might have the ability to pull it off, and would be willing to consider entering this market segment?
From: JYA on 11 Apr 2008 03:13
Hi On 2008-04-11 06:16:08 +1000, Andreas M�ller <andreas_moellerNOSPAM(a)gmx.de> said: > It comes with printed manuals as a booklet (42 pages) and installation > instructions, taking away the hassle for a newbie of installing the > libs as this is done through an installation routine (Just consider > the always upcoming question about installing libraries in this forum. > And if you even go to the support forum of HP look at the questions > that are asked there.) In these days and age, no one really expect you to provide a printed manual. In fact it's rather the opposite. The impact on the environment being too great. > > Also I am delivering free updates and will continue developing the > program because programming in sys-rpl and Saturn-ASM is challenging > and fun and because there is a lot of heart and soul and passion in it > from my side. Just replace the updated file on the SD card, delete the > libs on the calc and rerun the installation program from the card and > the update is done (By the way, when was the last time HP offered a > new ROM ?). Talking from experience. At first I sold my String Writer for $10, and would send a floppy disk with a collection of program. String Writer was personalised with the name of the person. I may have sold a dozen in 1 year. Then I made it shareware and gave it without any restrictions whatsoever to people, relying on their goodwill / honnesty to pay. Sales exploded. Personally, I wouldn't buy a calculator software for $50. What drives your cost up actually limits people: -protected software -restricted use on which machine you can use your calculator -must sell on a SD card to support that protection. You have two machines? you must pay two licenses ... crazy. Not many software company even have those restrictions these days. Even Microsoft Office can be installed on more than one machine provided you only use one at a time. The first mistake you made is that you are obviously assuming people are dishonnest and as such will not pay your license if they use it, instead will illegally copy it. Some of the most successful games of all time: Wolfenstein 3D, Doom .. Were free to use, shareware. They made millions. Ebay also has proven that the majority of people are honnest. If your software is worth it and makes a difference to people, people will pay for it. > > And, last but not least, support has to be given for already sold > versions. > > To be fair there are two prices to compare at this moment: > $39.95 for those that already have a calculator. > $34.95 if bought together with a new calc. > > Now subtract from the $34.95 the price of the card in Euros, subtract > the price of the booklet, subtract something the dealer must earn and > you will find out yourself that my main concern is *not* making money > with it. booklet -> not necessary the card is only required to support your protection > Concerning your suggestions about the license please consider the fact > that I am also limited to hardware restrictions. If you know of a > better way, please share it with me. The whole idea of protecting your software sounds crazy to me. It takes time, people will crack it just for the fun of it. At the end, you will spend more time worrying about your protection than improving the software. Personally these days, I do not buy software that forces me to pay for it, or limit me on how I want to use it. And I've paid for all software I use on a daily basis. > And as you stated correctly I am not Micro$oft and so far maximizing > my profits has not been my main ambition. So far it was fun in > programming ;-) keep it that way instead of worring about useless copy protection -- They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security (Benjamin Franklin) |