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From: Eleanor McHugh on 4 Jul 2008 19:22
On 4 Jul 2008, at 23:26, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> Bill Kelly wrote:
>> From: "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" <znmeb(a)cesmail.net>
>>>
>>>> * Or not. Some folks will have ulterior motives for choosing one
>>>> tool over another, but you should start be giving people the
>>>> benefit of the doubt.
>>>
>>> Or better yet, just say, "They may be right," and proceed with the
>>> accepted environments and projects.
>> Wait... have you ever actually endured much Java programming? <grin>
>> HaHaOnlySerious,
>> Bill
>
> I once picked Java for a queuing theory model. I tried Visual Basic,
> Perl and Java on some simple linear algebra, and Java was the
> fastest. This was *long* ago -- before "Java 2"! So I wrote it in
> Java. The damn thing is still sitting in a CM repository somewhere.
> Nobody used it, because Java wasn't on the "approved list". If I had
> written it in C, I would have been a hero. Ah, well. :)
>
> That's the only Java code I ever wrote, but the language still
> appeals to me as a language. What I haven't endured is all of the
> frameworks, APIs, XML, etc. that have "evolved" around Java.

It started out a pretty sweet language: simple to learn and less
fiddly that C++. Unfortunately it's become progressively less friendly
with each successive release, not least because of the proliferation
of standard libraries. If Sun had started out with something a bit
more like Groovy I might even have remained a fan :)


Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason



From: Robert Dober on 5 Jul 2008 03:29
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Eleanor McHugh
<eleanor(a)games-with-brains.com> wrote:
> On 4 Jul 2008, at 23:26, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
>>
>> Bill Kelly wrote:
>>>
>>> From: "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" <znmeb(a)cesmail.net>
>>>>
>>>>> * Or not. Some folks will have ulterior motives for choosing one tool
>>>>> over another, but you should start be giving people the benefit of the
>>>>> doubt.
>>>>
>>>> Or better yet, just say, "They may be right," and proceed with the
>>>> accepted environments and projects.
>>>
>>> Wait... have you ever actually endured much Java programming? <grin>
>>> HaHaOnlySerious,
>>> Bill
>>
>> I once picked Java for a queuing theory model. I tried Visual Basic, Perl
>> and Java on some simple linear algebra, and Java was the fastest. This was
>> *long* ago -- before "Java 2"! So I wrote it in Java. The damn thing is
>> still sitting in a CM repository somewhere. Nobody used it, because Java
>> wasn't on the "approved list". If I had written it in C, I would have been a
>> hero. Ah, well. :)
>>
>> That's the only Java code I ever wrote, but the language still appeals to
>> me as a language. What I haven't endured is all of the frameworks, APIs,
>> XML, etc. that have "evolved" around Java.
>
> It started out a pretty sweet language: simple to learn and less fiddly that
> C++. Unfortunately it's become progressively less friendly with each
> successive release, not least because of the proliferation of standard
> libraries. If Sun had started out with something a bit more like Groovy I
> might even have remained a fan :)

Or Smalltalk, IIRC it was just of these *stupid* license issues that
they did not continue with Oak.
What a shame :(

R.

From: Aníbal Rojas on 5 Jul 2008 07:31
Take a look at:

- Grails: http://grails.org/
- Seam: http://seamframework.org/

Happily since we left Java a few years ago we haven't had to look
back. I tried Grails and Seam at their early stages and is not the fun
Ruby provides but they do the work in a much better way than Struts
for example. They have very different approaches but they both follow
DRY and COC.

Good Luck,

--
Aníbal Rojas
http://hasmanydevelopers.com
http://rubycorner.com
http://anibal.rojas.com.ve

On Jul 4, 1:31 pm, S2 <x...(a)y.z> wrote:
> My company today decided to ditch ruby development and to develop new web
> applications only with Java or .net.
> Current RoR applications will be migrated to Java.
> Sigh. No more ruby for me (in office hours).
> But anyway: are here some Java devs who may suggest some Java frameworks
> similar to RoR? Maybe something that emulates Activerecord and is as
> flexible, powerful and convenient to use as the ActionPack?

From: Eleanor McHugh on 5 Jul 2008 08:47
On 5 Jul 2008, at 13:16, S2 wrote:
> Aníbal Rojas wrote:
>
>> - Grails: http://grails.org/
>
> I am being naive maybe, but I don't get the point of Grails. It's a
> different programming language and it tries to mimic rails. So the
> only
> thing it has of Java it's the JVM. So they had to completely rewrite
> rails
> in Groovy. Why not use the real thing at this point? Or jruby?

Because they like Groovy :)
It's a good language if the JVM is your only target, and it's still
close enough to Java that there's not too much pain working with both.


Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason



From: phlip on 5 Jul 2008 09:34
An�bal Rojas wrote:
> Take a look at:
>
> - Grails: http://grails.org/
> - Seam: http://seamframework.org/
>
> Happily since we left Java a few years ago we haven't had to look
> back. I tried Grails and Seam at their early stages and is not the fun
> Ruby provides but they do the work in a much better way than Struts
> for example. They have very different approaches but they both follow
> DRY and COC.

How about TDD, MVC, ActiveRecord, and block closures?

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