From: Adornley on
> On 07/18/2010 01:18 PM, Aragorn wrote:

> Well, let me give you some more advice then, my friend... First of all,
> start by not using Google Groups anymore to post to Usenet. Although
> Google tries very hard to obscure this, Usenet is *not* a part of
> Google and never has been. Google only *archives* Usenet posts and
> offers a (very poor) web-based interface for posting to Usenet.

[hmm.. asking under the title of "very new" to linux]

have been wondering - how can you tell whether one has posted using
Google Groups rather than Usenet? or vice versa?

sorry if it's a trivial one..

thanks :)

A.



On 07/18/2010 01:18 PM, Aragorn wrote:
> On Sunday 18 July 2010 10:21 in comp.os.linux.setup, somebody
> identifying as tino wrote...
>
>> On Jul 17, 2:00 pm, Aragorn<arag...(a)chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> [a whole lot of stuff about partitions and directories]
>>
>> @Aragorn:
>>
>> Thank you for taking the time to reply with such a detailed
>> explanation.
>
> Oh, my pleasure. ;-) I like explaining things into detail. :-)
>
>> I read your answer a few times and still feel each time I reread you
>> answer, there's additional information I pick up from your lines.
>> Indeed, there's a lot to learn and understand :)
>
> Well, it all begins with the understanding where GNU/Linux comes from.
> Even though it doesn't use a single line of pre-existing code from any
> of the proprietary UNIX systems, it *is* a UNIX-family operating
> system, and the original AT&T Unix was developed on a mini-computer,
> which is a multiuser hardware architecture. And thus, UNIX-family
> operating systems are multiuser systems.
>
> Some say that the learning curve to GNU/Linux is pretty steep, but the
> truth is that it's only this steep for people who have been conditioned
> to expect the behavior of Microsoft Windows, and given that Windows
> does not present a computer to the user for what it really is - Windows
> is essentially still a single-user operating system with bolted-on
> security features - and that it is essentially only a successor to
> MS-DOS, people who have been using Windows for a long time without any
> knowledge or understanding of other operating systems or operating
> system technology - and Windows shields the user from obtaining that
> knowledge via the use of Windows itself - will suddenly feel like
> they're being overwhelmed by the technical aspects of GNU/Linux.
>
> Just give it some time, and you'll grow to love it soon enough. ;-)
>
>> I am completely new here yet did notice a few of your other answers
>> here which I learned from as well, even if not always with full
>> understanding - appreciate it a lot.
>
> Well, let me give you some more advice then, my friend... First of all,
> start by not using Google Groups anymore to post to Usenet. Although
> Google tries very hard to obscure this, Usenet is *not* a part of
> Google and never has been. Google only *archives* Usenet posts and
> offers a (very poor) web-based interface for posting to Usenet.
>
> What you need to do, first and foremost, is use a real newsreader and a
> real news service. Several ISPs offer a newsserver to their customers,
> but more and more are beginning to drop that service because of the
> fact that Usenet is becoming less popular and that it is also being
> abused for the distribution of copyrighted binary material. Yet, there
> are many free newsservers available for posting to text-only groups.
>
> Personally I recommend Eternal September. They do have their occasional
> glitches, but in overall they're excellent. Just point your favorite
> browser here...
>
> http://www.eternal-september.org
>
> ... and register for an account. It's free of charge. They will send
> you an e-mail with the login and password to use, and then all you have
> to do is use a real newsreader. On GNU/Linux, you can use both GUI
> variants - e.g. KNode, Pan - and non-GUI variants - e.g. slrn. There's
> also Mozilla Thunderbird, which is an e-mail client but which doubles
> as a newsreader. (MS-Outlook Express also does that, from what I've
> seen in the headers of some posts - I think it's called Windows Mail
> now, but I'm not sure; I don't do Windows. ;-))
>
> Then, my advice to you would be that when you see an interesting thread,
> mark the thread as one "to be watched" - i.e. you assign a higher score
> to it in your newsreader - and follow the discussions, and then copy
> the interesting posts in the thread to a dedicated folder in your
> newsreader - note: I'm talking of a newsreader folder, not a directory
> on your hard disk. ;-)
>
> Sometimes it's good to monitor a thread for a while and not save the
> posts right away, because someone might be wrong and another person is
> then bound to correct him on that. It's the correct information that
> you want to save, not the false claims, of course. ;-)
>
> Apart from the functionality, there are also other reasons as to why you
> would want to use a real newsreader instead of Google Groups. For
> starters, many regular posters filter out posts sent via Google Groups
> because of the general cluelessness exhibited by many Google Groups
> posters, who are apparently too lazy to look for information on the web
> using Google as a search engine. Trolls and spammers also frequently
> make use of Google Groups, so filtering out Google Groups tends to keep
> the noise-to-signal ratio a little lower.
>
> And thus, as a consequence, if you're posting via Google Groups,
> considering that many regulars filter that out, you decrease your
> chances of getting useful replies from knowledgeable posters. I am
> giving you good advice, my friend: ditch Google Groups and get a real
> newsreader and newsserver! ;-)
>
> You may also want to bookmark the following link, albeit that I have to
> admit that most of the information here is not exactly up-to-date...:
>
> http://www.tldp.org
>
> And then there's also this one...
>
> http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org
>
> There are loads more websites like these, some better than others.
>
> Just remember: give the penguin some affection and you'll have a pet for
> life. :-)
>

From: Adornley on
On 07/18/2010 08:04 PM, Aragorn wrote:

> With a real newsreader, you will be able to see all the headers of each
> post, when available. People who post from Google Groups have
> their "User Agent" listed as "G2".
>
> P.S.: You may also want to read up on this one...:
>
> http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#quote
>

Hello again :)
Hesitated before replying.. went through the link, and am very thankful
for it, just wanted to make sure I was following the "rules"..
wasn't aware of the fact there are these good conventions to follow
though now that I think about it - it was stupid to think otherwise..
Anyway, at no point (my last post here was my first ever on Usenet ;) )
I meant to offend anybody :).. even now I'm not sure I did this right..
hopefully I did and if not - my apologies + any corrections will be very
appreciated.. will study how this should be done while reading and
following threads.
(one thing I'm not sure about, though, is I actually write here after
your quote (though originally there was more afterwards, which I
trimmed) - is this ok?)
also - I wanted to begin my message with this yet it replies to the link
you suggested and only in the next paragraph I re-ask about the
beginning of your quoted text, but did not want to break your order of
writing things down.. I'm not sure it's a "polite" or acceptable thing
to do or a no-no.. also, I strayed from the original thread's subject,
which seems unfair as well - so I apologise and will definitely not
repeat such a bad habit again..

Anyway, wanted to ask also about what you meant by 'a real newsreader'..
I started reading newsgroups by using Thunderbird and couldn't find the
'G2' text when reading posts of Google Groups.. so was wondering.. but I
guess I'll find the answer sooner or later as I spend some more time here :)

Thanks! :)


--
Adornley
From: Adornley on
On 07/19/2010 07:58 PM, Aragorn wrote:
> On Monday 19 July 2010 16:12 in comp.os.linux.setup, somebody
> identifying as Adornley wrote...
>
[...]
>> Anyway, at no point (my last post here was my first ever
>> on Usenet ;) ) I meant to offend anybody :).. even now I'm not sure I
>> did this right.. hopefully I did and if not - my apologies + any
>> corrections will be very appreciated.. will study how this should be
>> done while reading and following threads.
>
> I did not mean to imply that you were doing something wrong. If I came
> across as having made such an innuendo, then I apologize. I was merely
> trying to give you somewhat of a heads-up, since you appear to be new
> here. Something in the spirit of showing you the caveats before you
> trip over them. ;-)
>

;)
I did not have the feeling reading your answers I was offending anybody,
on the contrary.. really appreciate correcting me at my first post here
and being patient rather than angry, plus supplying me with valuable
information I can learn from as well..
this is why it was even more important to me to show my appreciation
also by quoting correctly, and thus apologised when discovered I wasn't
being accurate in my replies.. :)

>
>> I'm not sure it's a "polite" or acceptable thing to do or a no-no..
>> also, I strayed from the original thread's subject, which seems unfair
>> as well - so I apologise and will definitely not repeat such a bad
>> habit again..
>
> Most threads will stray from the original subject after two or three
> levels down. :p
>

:)
makes me feel better.. still I get the impression users who look for
answers in the newsgroups and find a thread regarding one subject would
rather find posts related to it inside.. or otherwise - they may not
find what they're looking for because the information is under a
different thread's subject (or, it may be less convenient this way..) -
so I'll try not to do this often

>
> Any newsreader program, e.g. KNode, Thunderbird, Pan, slrn, et al.
>
>> I started reading newsgroups by using Thunderbird and couldn't find
>> the 'G2' text when reading posts of Google Groups.. so was wondering..
>> but I guess I'll find the answer sooner or later as I spend some more
>> time here :)
>
> Those are headers. They do not appear in the message body, but they
> should be visible in a separate part of the message. It is possible
> that you may have to select "View all headers" or something of that
> sort in the menu. I've never used Thunderbird myself, so I don't
> really know.
>

Feeling silly it took me a while to find it..
I found the headers when viewing a message's source (in the right-click
menu), but more convenient was to choose from Thunderbird's menu:
View -> Headers -> All (rather than the default 'Normal' option),
so they're available whenever I view a message..

>
> Hope this helps. ;-)
>

A lot :) and very much appreciated..

--
Adornley