About USB 3
in [Hardware]
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From: pawihte on 30 Jul 2010 06:50 How common is USB 3 integration on current entry to mid-range motherboards? Is lack of USB 3 likely to be a major hindrance over the next couple of years for general desktop use? I'd be willing to check out the situation myself except that my ISP is in the middle of one of its frequent phases of giving really poor service. We have no realistic alternative ISPs where I live. So I'll appreciate inputs from those who already possess the facts or are willing to look them up. Thanks in advance.
From: GT on 30 Jul 2010 06:56 "pawihte" <pawihte(a)fake.invalid> wrote in message news:i2uaov$rhb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > How common is USB 3 integration on current entry to mid-range > motherboards? Is lack of USB 3 likely to be a major hindrance over the > next couple of years for general desktop use? > > I'd be willing to check out the situation myself except that my ISP is in > the middle of one of its frequent phases of giving really poor service. We > have no realistic alternative ISPs where I live. So I'll appreciate inputs > from those who already possess the facts or are willing to look them up. > Thanks in advance. Most USB 3 devices will be backwards compatible, so a USB board will still be useful for many years, albeit slower performance. PCI add-in USB boards are now easily had and are only a few pounds, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Some of the newer boards do now ship with a couple of USB3 ports alongside 2 or 4 USB 2 ports, but it won't be standard across the board (no pun) for a good few months yet, I would say.
From: Paul on 30 Jul 2010 07:48 pawihte wrote: > How common is USB 3 integration on current entry to mid-range > motherboards? Is lack of USB 3 likely to be a major hindrance > over the next couple of years for general desktop use? > > I'd be willing to check out the situation myself except that my > ISP is in the middle of one of its frequent phases of giving > really poor service. We have no realistic alternative ISPs where > I live. So I'll appreciate inputs from those who already possess > the facts or are willing to look them up. Thanks in advance. > USB3 is a separate chip, soldered to a lot of new motherboards. The chip they're using, is a NEC brand chip, with a PCI Express x1 lane interface. To run flat out, that chip should be connected to a PCI Express x1 Rev.2 slot (500MB/sec), rather than a Rev.1 slot (250MB/sec). The chip will work with either of those, but if for some reason, you need all the bandwidth available from USB3, the Rev.2 capable slot is better. Many video card slots are Rev.2, but using a video slot for a card like that is a bit of a waste. (Typically, the video card slots are Rev.2 or 500MB/sec per lane, but the other tiny add-in PCI Express slots are Rev.1. You'd have to look hard, for exceptions.) (USB 3 add-in card using PCI Express x1 connector - max speed on Rev.2) http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-339-004-Z03?$S640W$ At least one motherboard using that chip, has some crazy limitation where the chip speed changes, as a function of the PCI Express slot configuration (i.e. how you're using the other slots). But many other motherboards will have that function fixed in speed, one way or another. (I.e. Always stuck with Rev.1 x1 slots.) The rumor is, that Intel is holding back on introducing USB3 on the Southbridge, and choosing to launch it at the same time as they launch "Light Peak". AMD, on the other hand, has integrated SATA III on their Southbridge, but hasn't offered a USB3 native port yet. Both companies probably want to make sure their launch is a clean one - ATI had a "slow" USB2 implementation once on a Southbridge, and they would not need a "black eye" from repeating that experience. So both companies are probably choosing to let NEC have its fun, before jumping in. (NEC was also the first company to offer a USB2 chip, as far as I know. The first USB2 driver may have been tested on a NEC chip.) (AMD has SATA III) http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/chipsets/8-series-integrated/Pages/amd-890fx-chipset.aspx There is one USB3 card, which uses a bridge chip, to get around the Rev.2 slot issue. By using a bridge chip, the requirement changes from x1 Rev.2 to x4 Rev.1 or Rev.2. But x4 slots aren't that common, so you'd probably end up using a video card slot for this card anyway. If you price around, this thing is a steal. (U3S6 card - read all the reviews, before you buy it!) http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004 So you can add the function cheaply, if it isn't soldered to the motherboard. I'd probably try to get Rev.2 slots on my motherboard, but I doubt there is enough info in adverts, to make it easy to do that. Using USB3, this table of calculated bandwidths, shows it will be possible to hit 336MB/sec on a storage device. So if you had a SATA III SSD, inside a proper USB3 enclosure, and the UAS protocol is used, the transfer rate is supposed to reach 336MB/sec. That would be a case, where the Rev.1 x1 PCI Express slot, at 250MB/sec, just would not do - you'd want your Rev.2 slot at 500MB/sec for that :-) But who does backups to a $600 SSD drive ? You're more likely to use a 125MB/sec 2TB hard drive inside the enclosure, and then it doesn't matter what kind of slot you use for the add-in USB3 card. http://www.nordichardware.com/index.php?option=com_content&catid=112&lang=en&view=article&id=20792 Paul
From: pawihte on 30 Jul 2010 15:09 GT wrote: > "pawihte" <pawihte(a)fake.invalid> wrote in message > news:i2uaov$rhb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> How common is USB 3 integration on current entry to mid-range >> motherboards? Is lack of USB 3 likely to be a major hindrance >> over >> the next couple of years for general desktop use? >> >> I'd be willing to check out the situation myself except that >> my ISP >> is in the middle of one of its frequent phases of giving >> really poor >> service. We have no realistic alternative ISPs where I live. >> So I'll >> appreciate inputs from those who already possess the facts or >> are >> willing to look them up. Thanks in advance. > > Most USB 3 devices will be backwards compatible, so a USB board > will > still be useful for many years, albeit slower performance. PCI > add-in > USB boards are now easily had and are only a few pounds, so I > wouldn't worry about it too much. Some of the newer boards do > now > ship with a couple of USB3 ports alongside 2 or 4 USB 2 ports, > but it > won't be standard across the board (no pun) for a good few > months > yet, I would say. Thanks, GT. I suppose, at least for some time, most common external devices aren't likely to utilise the full potential of USB3 anyway. By "common" I mean except perhaps those needed by power users with deep pockets.
From: pawihte on 30 Jul 2010 15:13
Paul wrote: > pawihte wrote: >> How common is USB 3 integration on current entry to mid-range >> motherboards? Is lack of USB 3 likely to be a major hindrance >> over the next couple of years for general desktop use? >> >> I'd be willing to check out the situation myself except that >> my >> ISP is in the middle of one of its frequent phases of giving >> really poor service. We have no realistic alternative ISPs >> where >> I live. So I'll appreciate inputs from those who already >> possess >> the facts or are willing to look them up. Thanks in advance. >> > > USB3 is a separate chip, soldered to a lot of new motherboards. > The chip they're using, is a NEC brand chip, with a PCI Express > x1 > lane interface. To run flat out, that chip should be connected > to a PCI Express x1 Rev.2 slot (500MB/sec), rather than a > Rev.1 slot (250MB/sec). The chip will work with either of > those, but if for some reason, you need all the bandwidth > available from USB3, the Rev.2 capable slot is better. Many > video card slots are Rev.2, but using a video slot for a > card like that is a bit of a waste. (Typically, the video > card slots are Rev.2 or 500MB/sec per lane, but the other > tiny add-in PCI Express slots are Rev.1. You'd have to > look hard, for exceptions.) > > (USB 3 add-in card using PCI Express x1 connector - max speed > on > Rev.2) > http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-339-004-Z03?$S640W$ > > At least one motherboard using that chip, has some crazy > limitation > where the chip speed changes, as a function of the PCI Express > slot > configuration (i.e. how you're using the other slots). But many > other motherboards will have that function fixed in speed, one > way or another. (I.e. Always stuck with Rev.1 x1 slots.) > > The rumor is, that Intel is holding back on introducing USB3 > on the Southbridge, and choosing to launch it at the same time > as they launch "Light Peak". AMD, on the other hand, has > integrated SATA III on their Southbridge, but hasn't offered > a USB3 native port yet. Both companies probably want to make > sure their launch is a clean one - ATI had a "slow" USB2 > implementation once on a Southbridge, and they would not need > a "black eye" from repeating that experience. So both companies > are probably choosing to let NEC have its fun, before jumping > in. > (NEC was also the first company to offer a USB2 chip, as far as > I know. The first USB2 driver may have been tested on a NEC > chip.) > > (AMD has SATA III) > http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/chipsets/8-series-integrated/Pages/amd-890fx-chipset.aspx > > There is one USB3 card, which uses a bridge chip, to get around > the > Rev.2 slot issue. By using a bridge chip, the requirement > changes from x1 Rev.2 to x4 Rev.1 or Rev.2. But x4 slots aren't > that > common, so you'd probably end up using a video card slot for > this > card anyway. If you price around, this thing is a steal. > > (U3S6 card - read all the reviews, before you buy it!) > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004 > > So you can add the function cheaply, if it isn't soldered > to the motherboard. I'd probably try to get Rev.2 slots on > my motherboard, but I doubt there is enough info in adverts, > to make it easy to do that. > > Using USB3, this table of calculated bandwidths, shows it > will be possible to hit 336MB/sec on a storage device. So > if you had a SATA III SSD, inside a proper USB3 enclosure, > and the UAS protocol is used, the transfer rate is supposed > to reach 336MB/sec. That would be a case, where the Rev.1 x1 > PCI Express slot, at 250MB/sec, just would not do - you'd want > your Rev.2 slot at 500MB/sec for that :-) But who does > backups to a $600 SSD drive ? You're more likely to use a > 125MB/sec 2TB hard drive inside the enclosure, and then it > doesn't matter what kind of slot you use for the add-in > USB3 card. > > http://www.nordichardware.com/index.php?option=com_content&catid=112&lang=en&view=article&id=20792 > > Paul Thanks, Paul. That clears up a lot of things. Now I don't see any pressing need to hunt for a USB3 mobo and probably pay a premium price for it. |