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From: Earl Kiosterud on 8 Feb 2010 23:48
Hi folks,

Using FP 2002.

I have various elements positioned absolutely, and when I move one, others
move, but not vice versa. Can't find what controls that.

Related question: When I look on the positioning toolbar at the X and Y
positioning of text items (absolute position text items), they seem to be
relative to the top and left edge of the page, as I would expect, in pixels.
But absolutely positioned graphics seem to have some other origin, and the
items have negative Left and Top numbers. How do those X and Y numbers work
with graphics?

Thanks

Earl


From: Ronx on 9 Feb 2010 03:10
All absolutely positioned elements work the same way:
The coordinates are taken from the nearest positioned ancestor.

Absolute positioning should be avoided unless you know all the pitfalls
and nuances - and if you had this knowledge, you would use a different
method of page layout.

The elements that move when other elements are moved are inside those
other elements, and their coordinates are based on the top left of
those containers.

--
Ron Symonds
Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp


Earl Kiosterud formulated on Tuesday :
> Hi folks,

> Using FP 2002.

> I have various elements positioned absolutely, and when I move one, others
> move, but not vice versa. Can't find what controls that.

> Related question: When I look on the positioning toolbar at the X and Y
> positioning of text items (absolute position text items), they seem to be
> relative to the top and left edge of the page, as I would expect, in pixels.
> But absolutely positioned graphics seem to have some other origin, and the
> items have negative Left and Top numbers. How do those X and Y numbers work
> with graphics?

> Thanks

> Earl


From: Earl Kiosterud on 9 Feb 2010 15:42
Ron,

Thanks, but I don't know where to go from here. I've looked, but I don't
know how to look into ancestors and elements inside other elements.

It's a small web site, and I just want to get it done. I haven't done any
web authoring in years. My "Front Page 2002 Bible" spoke of absolute
positioning not working well in various browsers, but that was back then.
It seems to work reliably now, except for the relative positioning stuff you
mentioned . That book said to use tables to lay out a page. But tables are
cranky in Front Page, and splitting and merging cells or putting tables
inside tables is messy. I have text and images to lay out here and there on
a handful of pages. What's the best way to get this done with FP 2002? I
might be able to get my FP 2003 installed, if that will provide tools I can
use.

Thanks.

Earl



"Ronx" <ronx917(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eADdY9VqKHA.5896(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> All absolutely positioned elements work the same way:
> The coordinates are taken from the nearest positioned ancestor.
>
> Absolute positioning should be avoided unless you know all the pitfalls
> and nuances - and if you had this knowledge, you would use a different
> method of page layout.
>
> The elements that move when other elements are moved are inside those
> other elements, and their coordinates are based on the top left of those
> containers.
>
> --
> Ron Symonds
> Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
> http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
>
>
> Earl Kiosterud formulated on Tuesday :
>> Hi folks,
>
>> Using FP 2002.
>
>> I have various elements positioned absolutely, and when I move one,
>> others move, but not vice versa. Can't find what controls that.
>
>> Related question: When I look on the positioning toolbar at the X and Y
>> positioning of text items (absolute position text items), they seem to be
>> relative to the top and left edge of the page, as I would expect, in
>> pixels. But absolutely positioned graphics seem to have some other
>> origin, and the items have negative Left and Top numbers. How do those X
>> and Y numbers work with graphics?
>
>> Thanks
>
>> Earl
>
>


From: Ronx on 9 Feb 2010 16:13
Absolute positioning is just as bad now as it ever was,
except in the hands of a skilled designer. Very few
professional designers use absolute positioning for page
layout, but it does have uses in a very few applications
like flyout menus.

I suggest you have a look through
http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/99c95aee-bfe6-4c4d-80d4-8d197194a942

This is for Expression Web (the replacement for
FrontPage) but a lot of the learning resources and
tutorials also apply to FrontPage (though the
implementation may have to be through code/HTML view).

With any copy of FrontPage, unless you want to get
dirty in code markup, I would use tables. They are
just as cranky in any web editor - or you could learn
to use divs, margins, floats and padding to layout the
page which is the "modern" way.
http://w3schools.com is a good place to start.

--
Ron Symonds
Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp/wf-menu.aspx


Earl Kiosterud presented the following explanation :
> Ron,

> Thanks, but I don't know where to go from here.
> I've looked, but I don't know how to look into
> ancestors and elements inside other elements.

> It's a small web site, and I just want to get
> it done. I haven't done any web authoring in
> years. My "Front Page 2002 Bible" spoke of
> absolute positioning not working well in
> various browsers, but that was back then. It
> seems to work reliably now, except for the
> relative positioning stuff you mentioned .
> That book said to use tables to lay out a page.
> But tables are cranky in Front Page, and
> splitting and merging cells or putting tables
> inside tables is messy. I have text and images
> to lay out here and there on a handful of
> pages. What's the best way to get this done
> with FP 2002? I might be able to get my FP
> 2003 installed, if that will provide tools I
> can use.

> Thanks.

> Earl



> "Ronx" <ronx917(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eADdY9VqKHA.5896(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> All absolutely positioned elements work the
>> same way:
>> The coordinates are taken from the nearest
>> positioned ancestor.
>>
>> Absolute positioning should be avoided unless
>> you know all the pitfalls and nuances - and
>> if you had this knowledge, you would use a
>> different method of page layout.
>>
>> The elements that move when other elements
>> are moved are inside those other elements,
>> and their coordinates are based on the top
>> left of those containers.
>>
>> --
>> Ron Symonds
>> Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
>> http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
>>
>>
>> Earl Kiosterud formulated on Tuesday :
>>> Hi folks,
>>
>>> Using FP 2002.
>>
>>> I have various elements positioned
>>> absolutely, and when I move one, others
>>> move, but not vice versa. Can't find what
>>> controls that.
>>
>>> Related question: When I look on the
>>> positioning toolbar at the X and Y
>>> positioning of text items (absolute position
>>> text items), they seem to be relative to the
>>> top and left edge of the page, as I would
>>> expect, in pixels. But absolutely positioned
>>> graphics seem to have some other origin, and
>>> the items have negative Left and Top
>>> numbers. How do those X and Y numbers work
>>> with graphics?
>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>> Earl
>>
>>


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