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From: Andy on 24 Jun 2010 05:00


"Nospam" <nospam(a)nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:JhCs6cAQ6jIMFw5k(a)nospam.demon.co.uk...
> Hi All,
>
> My son's world has just collapsed!
>
> His PC, home built has stopped working
> After many year of use.
>
> He has not added any new hardware, software or updates
>
> It wont display anything on the screen at all. Not even the BIOS name,
> nothing
>
> should it display anything if we boot it with out a hard disc and no ram
> installed
> .
> I would have thought we would have a BIOS name then halt, I wouldn't
> expect much with out ram but I would have thought we would have got
> something.
>
> we have changed the graphics card as that was the only spare component we
> have.
>
> Sometimes the unit switches itself off a few seconds after switch on
> some times it stays powered but no display
>
> occasionally we have had a few successful entries into the BIOS but mostly
> it is a totally blank screen
>
> I have measured all the levels out of the PSU and they are in spec.
>
> why would it turn itself off?
> Or is the motherboard turning it off because it is not functioning.
>
> Any suggestions most welcome
>
> ASUS crosshair motherboard
> 4GBytes DDR2 800MHz Ram
> AMD2 CPU
> 320 GB SATA hard disc
>
>
> --
> Nospam
>

Hi,

The Asus Crosshair motherboard has a small lcd display mounted on the back
plate. You can view it from the back of the PC case near the keyboard ps2
connector, it should give you some idea what the issue is.

Andy

From: Nospam on 24 Jun 2010 16:19
In message <I5KdneIK0rcFEr_RnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au>,
spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> writes
>Does the monitor display the OSD? If not, the monitor is dead.

Yes the monitor displays Acer Logo on switch on.

--
Nospam
From: Nospam on 24 Jun 2010 18:52
In message <f8FUn.25694$m87.7282(a)hurricane>, Andy
<andy(a)NOSPAMmanyplay.com> writes
>
>
>"Nospam" <nospam(a)nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:JhCs6cAQ6jIMFw5k(a)nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> My son's world has just collapsed!
>>
>> His PC, home built has stopped working
>> After many year of use.
>>
>> He has not added any new hardware, software or updates
>>
>> It wont display anything on the screen at all. Not even the BIOS
>>name, nothing
>>
>> should it display anything if we boot it with out a hard disc and no
>>ram installed
>> .
>> I would have thought we would have a BIOS name then halt, I wouldn't
>>expect much with out ram but I would have thought we would have got
>>something.
>>
>> we have changed the graphics card as that was the only spare
>>component we have.
>>
>> Sometimes the unit switches itself off a few seconds after switch on
>> some times it stays powered but no display
>>
>> occasionally we have had a few successful entries into the BIOS but
>>mostly it is a totally blank screen
>>
>> I have measured all the levels out of the PSU and they are in spec.
>>
>> why would it turn itself off?
>> Or is the motherboard turning it off because it is not functioning.
>>
>> Any suggestions most welcome
>>
>> ASUS crosshair motherboard
>> 4GBytes DDR2 800MHz Ram
>> AMD2 CPU
>> 320 GB SATA hard disc
>>
>>
>> -- Nospam
>>
>
>Hi,
>
>The Asus Crosshair motherboard has a small lcd display mounted on the
>back plate. You can view it from the back of the PC case near the
>keyboard ps2 connector, it should give you some idea what the issue is.
>
>Andy

The display just says

Det DRAM

so its detected the DRAM but thats all it says.


--
Nospam
From: Nospam on 24 Jun 2010 19:01
In message <hvtku0$1uo$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Jan Alter
<bearpuf(a)verizon.net> writes
>"Nospam" <nospam(a)nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:JhCs6cAQ6jIMFw5k(a)nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> My son's world has just collapsed!
>>
>> His PC, home built has stopped working
>> After many year of use.
>>
>> He has not added any new hardware, software or updates
>>
>> It wont display anything on the screen at all. Not even the BIOS name,
>> nothing
>>
>> should it display anything if we boot it with out a hard disc and no ram
>> installed
>> .
>> I would have thought we would have a BIOS name then halt, I wouldn't
>> expect much with out ram but I would have thought we would have got
>> something.
>>
>> we have changed the graphics card as that was the only spare component we
>> have.
>>
>> Sometimes the unit switches itself off a few seconds after switch on
>> some times it stays powered but no display
>>
>> occasionally we have had a few successful entries into the BIOS but mostly
>> it is a totally blank screen
>>
>> I have measured all the levels out of the PSU and they are in spec.
>>
>> why would it turn itself off?
>> Or is the motherboard turning it off because it is not functioning.
>>
>> Any suggestions most welcome
>>
>> ASUS crosshair motherboarder issue could be the cmos battery 4GBytes DDR2
>> 800MHz Ram
>> AMD2 CPU
>> 320 GB SATA hard disc
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nospam
>
>When turning on do you get a beep sound from the PC speaker? If you do then
>the cpu, RAM and mb are working, and it could be a faulty graphics (even
>though you substituted another one).


No speaker unfortunately


>
>Another problem causing your problem may be a dead cmos battery. Remove it
>and check the voltage. It should be around 3 volts. If lower then it's worth
>replacing. On some computers having a dead cmos battery will cause a no
>start problem.

The battery (CR2032) reads 3.15V using a Fluke DMM
so that looks OK.

>
>Normally, even without a hard drive attached, but just graphics card and RAM
>one should get to the bios screen, or at least a dos screen and halt notice.


>
>Look at the capacitors on the motherboard. Is there anything liquidy
>emerging from the tops of any of the caps, or at the base of them on the mb.
>Leaking caps can keep the mb from starting.
>
No caps leaking, the mobo looks clean.


>If after pushing the on button it starts but then turns off that is a good
>indicator of a bad power supply.
I don't know if its turning off because it is being told to by the mobo
or if its detecting a fault internally and switching itself off.

Is they any way to check?

>
>If you have two RAM chips installed try removing one of them and start the
>computer again. If same error appears substitute the chip you removed for
>the one that is left. RAM can cause boot problems as well. If no difference
>then I would still go with the power supply.
>

We have 4 1GB ocz 800MHz DDR2 modules

we have tried each one singularly in A1 memory slot and the same problem
each time

we have tried it in various combinations of pairs.

Same issues

thanks for the suggestions



--
Nospam
From: Nospam on 24 Jun 2010 20:59
In message <hvtkg0$cf$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Paul
<nospam(a)needed.com> writes
>Nospam wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> My son's world has just collapsed!
>> His PC, home built has stopped working
>> After many year of use.
>> He has not added any new hardware, software or updates
>> It wont display anything on the screen at all. Not even the BIOS
>>name, nothing
>> should it display anything if we boot it with out a hard disc and no
>>ram installed
>> .
>> I would have thought we would have a BIOS name then halt, I wouldn't
>>expect much with out ram but I would have thought we would have got
>>something.
>> we have changed the graphics card as that was the only spare
>>component we have.
>> Sometimes the unit switches itself off a few seconds after switch on
>> some times it stays powered but no display
>> occasionally we have had a few successful entries into the BIOS but
>>mostly it is a totally blank screen
>> I have measured all the levels out of the PSU and they are in spec.
>> why would it turn itself off?
>> Or is the motherboard turning it off because it is not functioning.
>> Any suggestions most welcome
>> ASUS crosshair motherboard
>> 4GBytes DDR2 800MHz Ram
>> AMD2 CPU
>> 320 GB SATA hard disc
>>
>


Thanks for the very detailed response.
Much appreciated.

I have answered your questions in the text but as a quick summary;

I have tried the clr cmos button first with the cmos battery in place
and then without a batter in place but no joy.

the battery reads 3.15 V on my Fluke DMM

Also the beep test give the following
I fitted a speaker and get the following results

no memory
one long beep
followed by two short beeps.

With memory installed we just get one short beep.

After some measurements and checking of plugs we got it to boot, we
haven't done anything really, unless we had a suspect connection.

Also we only have two memory sticks in it, may be the other ram is dodgy

we ran it for 10 minutes and switched it off then we had trouble getting
it to turn on. The power supply would work for a few seconds then turn
off.

I tried this for a few dozen tries

I then unplugged 2 of his 4 fans from his 800 W PSU and was able to get
it to power up again.

I am starting to think it might be PSU related.

Some times it turns itself off after a few minutes of use (with the two
fans disconnected as described above).

I don't know if the PSU is being told to power down by the CPU/Mobo or
by internal PSU circuitry.

How do these atx PSU work



>With the side off the computer, do you see the green LED glowing on the
>motherboard ?

The LEDs that are glowing on the mobo are the 3 illuminated switches on
the mobo and one green LED

Power
reset
clr cmos

The green LED is near one of the slots, see next answer also.


Also there is a button on the rear of the unit that illuminates blue
LEDs around the mobo next to connectors, for easy of installing cards
etc.
But we dont have these switched on as it inhibits booting but they do
work so power is getting to the mobo.

>Asus motherboards have a green LED, to show the +5VSB rail
>is working. That green LED should never flash, and should remain on
>steady as long as the rear switch on the power supply is ON.

This green LED is illuminates and is not flashing, solid green.

>
>When you press the front (soft) power button, the power supply fans
>start to turn ?

yes


>Are the system cooling fans working ?

yes

>That would show
>you've got some system power, but it doesn't tell you exactly whether
>all rails are in spec or not.
>

I have used my Fluke DMM to check the voltages on the 24 way connector
and they are all in spec +- 5%

>The next thing to check, is whether the computer case has a small speaker,
>and whether that speaker is connected via a connector labeled "SPKR"
>to the PANEL header on the lower right hand corner of the motherboard.
>You need that connection, to listen for beep error codes. Some expensive
>computer cases, no longer have a speaker inside the case, which is a
>nuisance in this situation. You really need a speaker for the next test.
>

No speaker unfortunately. But I improvised with a pair of headphones,
wow it was loud, think I might be deaf now ;-)

without any RAM fitted it is looping with
one long beep
followed by two short beeps.

The BIOS mobo manual does not list what the error beeps mean.

The LCD display on the rear of the unit says DET DRAM

no other clues.

>To remove the RAM from the system, you turn off the power at the
>back of the computer. The green LED on the motherboard should be
>off, before working on the RAM. Otherwise, there could be standby power
>still in the RAM socket. Once the RAM is out, turn on the power
>at the back again.

>
>When you push the button in this case, if you hear two or three beeps
>from the computer case speaker (not the 5.1 speakers connected externally to
>the computer), then that is a relatively good sign. For the computer
>to beep, the processor needs to execute some BIOS code.
>
one long beep
followed by two short beeps.

With memory installed we just get one short beep.

>If, on the other hand, the "no RAM" test gives no beeps at all,
>then you've got more serious trouble on your hands. The first thing
>you'd check, is that the ATX12V 2x2 square power connector is still in
>place.

These are in place and read 12.54V, using a Fluke DMM
measure on the four green/yellow wires

The 8 pins inside the two 4 way connectors on the mobo all look nice
clean and very shiny

All the crimp terminals inside both 4 way square Molex type connectors.
They look tight not loose in any way.

No scorching or melted plastic.
>
>For power connectors, you've got the main power connector (20 or 24 pin)
>and the 2x2 ATX12V power connector. The proper ATX12V one has two yellow
>wires and two black wires. Remove the connectors and check to see if
>the pins are
>shiny. If the connectors were installed a bit loosely, without fastening
>the retention latch on each connector, the loose connection causes the
>pins to heat up and burn. Sometimes there is enough heat to melt plastic
>and deform the connector. (I've only had one melt/burn here, but it was
>a Molex 1x4 that had a contact problem, due to the manufacturing quality.)
>Connector damage requires replacing connectors on either end, and
>Mini-Fit Jr. pins might not be available at RadioShack for example. I
>got some at my only good electronics store in town, but they don't
>stock everything I need to do those kinds of repairs. But I did get
>enough stuff to build my load box.
>
>If you're not getting any beeps, and the two power cables are intact,
>you have a couple ways you can go, based purely on frequency of failure.
>If you had a spare power supply, you could install it and retest the
>system. Due to the "capacitor plague" a few years back, where bad
>electrolyte was used in capacitors, there have been a number of
>power supply failures. I had an Antec PSU fail here, due to bad caps.
>
>You can take a multimeter and verify the voltages on the main connectors.
>These documents will give you some wire colors, pin names, and the like
>to work with. But many people are not familiar with electronics, in which
>case, replacing the power supply and retesting is another option.
>
>http://web.archive.org/web/20030424061333/http://www.formfactors.org/dev
>eloper/specs/atx/ATX_ATX12V_PS_1_1.pdf
>
>http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/ATX12V_1_3dg.pdf
>
>http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf
>
>Do motherboards fail "out of the blue" ? Sure. You could do a visual
>inspection, for a burned regulator component, such as in the Vcore
>circuits around the CPU socket. Look for bulging caps, burned MOSFETs,
>or burned toroidal or square inductor packages. You can get any number
>of pre-warnings, such as unstable operation (more crashes), refusal
>to start reliably, a different "smell", a different background
>noise coming from the computer case, perhaps a slight modulation
>of what would normally be constant fan speeds. Any little hints like
>that, help when trying to figure out what's broke.
>
>If a different power supply isn't helping, then the motherboard would
>be next. Install the CPU and heatsink on the new motherboard, and
>do the beep test again, with no RAM or video card present. If it
>beeps, then you know the old processor is working in the new motherboard.
>If there is silence, then the processor could be dead. Processors
>are relatively reliable, at least compared to power supplies, and
>about the only kind of failures you'd normally run into, is a
>processor throwing errors, soon after installation. Occasionally
>a bad batch leaves the factory, but not that often. If you've had
>the processor for a while, and it was fine, it isn't likely to
>just "drop dead". (Exceptions, are applying extreme overvoltages
>to your processor, while overclocking. But the overclockers know,
>for particular processors, what is bad. For example, my E8400 is
>not supposed to be run over 1.400 volts.)
>
>At one time, AMD S462 socket processors were a bit flaky, due to
>the lack of thermal protection. Some of those would "cook", and
>when you disassembled the CPU and heatsink, you'd see signs of
>overheating. But modern processors from both companies are protected
>from overheat now, and the power supply will be shut off if the processor
>gets too hot.
>
>Good luck,
> Paul

--
Nospam
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