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From: Clocky on 9 Nov 2009 09:42
Ian McCall wrote:
> Having problems with my C64 (see other thread) and am now weighing up
> whether to get a new one or try to fix the old. Having a C64 is, of
> course, all about retro nostalgia and for me that means it has to be a
> breadbox C64 since that's what I had as a kid. I still think of C64c's
> as being new...
>
> Looking around though, I notice that there's very few breadboxes on
> offer but plenty (relatively) of C64c machines. Am curious - is that a
> reflection of reliability, or is it just co-incidence? Were the newer
> designs significantly better?
>

Apart from RAM chips failing and the odd 8500 CPU dying the C64C's are
pretty reliable. An added bonus is that the C64C only has two RAM chips so
replacing them with sockets and new DRAMs is pretty easy. Some of the main
reasons that the C64C is more reliable IMO is the lower chip count and the
PLA running much cooler and also SID running at a lower voltage.



From: Jim Brain on 9 Nov 2009 13:40
David Murray wrote:
> As for reliability. I'm not sure. I've seen plenty of both kinds
> die. But I've always been told that Commodore made the 64c more
> reliable by going to lower-voltage on some chips, as well as moving to
> CMOS instead of MOS chips which were supposed to run cooler. As to

Just to clarify (since this stuff gets archived):

Commodore did not move any of it's specialty ICs to CMOS in the 64C
design. I do believe the 85XX series used the newer HMOS-II process,
but the underlying technology was still NMOS.

The lower voltage (and the chip count reduction, as others have noted)
probably made the difference.

Jim
From: Rudolf Harras on 9 Nov 2009 19:36
David Murray schrieb:

>Given the choice, I'd
>rather use a 64c than a breadbox any day.

I'd not really prefer any C64/128 which has the new SID. Nearly all
games were compatible with the old SID, so with the new one you might
have different sounds.
From: David Murray on 9 Nov 2009 22:50
> I'd not really prefer any C64/128 which has the new SID. Nearly all
> games were compatible with the old SID, so with the new one you might
> have different sounds.

You know, the sad part is that during the 80's I had several different
64 variants ranging from the original breadbox to the 128D and my
friends also had several variants. None of us ever even knew there
was anything different with the SID chip at that time. I didn't learn
about it until well after the Commodore era had passed and everyone
moved on to PCs. Although by using an emulator and switching between
different versions, I can tell some difference audibly, it is
definitely not enough that I ever noticed back then and might still
not notice today if people didn't talk about it.
From: Rudolf Harras on 10 Nov 2009 04:51
David Murray schrieb:

>Although by using an emulator and switching between
>different versions, I can tell some difference audibly, it is
>definitely not enough that I ever noticed back then and might still
>not notice today if people didn't talk about it.

Then you play the wrong games! ;)

Try Space Taxi, Kennedy Approach, any other game with digitized sounds,
or listen to the Intro of Impossible Mission II and it will definately
sound better on the old SID.

I have a C128DCR with the new SID and did a resistor to it so that digi
sounds play louder again in most games.
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