Can AMD's Cool'n'Quiet kill my CPU and PSU?
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From: Ant on 5 Dec 2009 17:35 Hello. A few days ago, I came home to my already powered on old Linux/Debian computer desktop (leave it mostly 24/7). I woke it up to log in from its xmatrix screen saver and sleep. I ran a program (just upgraded VirtualBox and wanted to test it) and it hard locked up on me. No lights on my old PS/2 keyboard amd no PS/2 mouse cursor movements. Even the old OmniCube KVM didn't respond! I could open and close my old CD burner and DVD-ROM drives. I tried to hit case's reset button, but nothing. I held down its power button for over five seconds and nothing. I tried it again, it finally powered off. I turned it on and nothing. No beeps or anything. I did see the Enlight PC case's green power light blinking like a HDD light which was odd. No fans spin. I looked inside, and didn't see or smell anything odd like burned outs or anything. Just lots of dusts (cleaned this PC almost a year ago!). Last night, I got my old box back online, but had to make temporary(?) scarifices. Basically, it was worse than my other computer hardware friend and I thought. It was indeed that its Fortron FSP650-80GLC PSU (650 watts) from 5/14/2007 that went bust. We didn't have time to do an autopsy due to lack of time and energy (almost midnight!). We tried a new Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2 Modular Active PFC power supply (http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA= ). Nothing still came on the screen. Not even its POST! Monitor said no video signals either. We tried resetting CMOS, changing memory (had four pieces) in each slot and only using one piece, using and removing GeForce 8800 GT video card, etc. Sometimes the motherboard would do a long beep. My friend said it sounded like critical error even if the video card was there. He even tried another same new and tested MSI motherboard model that he brought in to test the CPU. Swapping memory pieces and slots and adding/removing video card seems inconsistent with either no long beeps or nothing, but both showed nothing on screen or any other activities. Later on, he is going to try another motherboard for this CPU and see if it does the same. After experimenting, he believed that the CPU's memory controller got damaged. Also, he thinks using AMD's Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool down during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause problems with voltages. Is that even possible to make my PSU and maybe CPU go bust? In Linux, I used Linux/Debian's AMD PowerNow with ondemand that is basically Cool'n'Quiet. See http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/cpu-freq/amd-powernow.txt .... A few years ago with the same motherboard and CPU, I used AMD's Cool'n'Quiet software in Windows XP. I remember it was giving me headaches like rare random blue screens, so I stopped using it. However, I upgraded my machines so I used the hardwares for Debian/Linux and it worked so well in Linux so I used it all day. I even had 150 days of uptime with no reboots and shutdowns! Here is what my older box used (similiar results to X2 with different values) that I am temporarily using according to dmesg: # dmesg |grep powernow [ 19.473810] powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ processors (1 cpu cores) (version 2.20.00) [ 19.473867] powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0x2 [ 19.473870] powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0x6 [ 19.473872] powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xa [ 19.473874] powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12 Most of the times, it is slow because I am just surfing, downloading, chatting, or whatever to make my box not work so hard. Once in a while, it goes max speed because I am doing something intensive like compiling, copying files (IDE/PATA/network), etc. What do you think? Maybe I should disable Cool'n'Quiet even though it will make more heat and use more power during idled times? Thank you in advance. :) FYI for my detailed computer setup before it died: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 939 4600+ CPU (using a Thermaltake Silent Boost K8 A1838 model), MSI K8N NEO4-F (MS-7125; v1.0) motherboard (NVIDIA nForce4), GeForce 5200 GT (AGP; NVIDIA), Enlight 7237-ATX mid-tower case; Antec Basiq BP550Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2 Modular Active PFC PSU, two case 80mm case fans, Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 (ST380011A; 7200 RPM; 80 GB) HDD, an IDE Quantum Fireball Plus LM 15 GB, Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1612 Rev. B 16X/48X ATAPI/IDE drive, Plextor PX-W1210 PlexWriter (12/10/32A; IDE), 3.5" floppy disk drive, and an Intel InBusiness 10/100 (82559) NIC. Running Debian (Linux) OS (Kernel v2.6.30-...-686). It is connected to a Belkin Omni Cube (4-port; PS/2 and VGA) to share a 19" Samsung SyncMaster 931BF LCD TFT monitor (4:3 aspect ratio and 1280x1024 native screen resolution), a Dell 104-key PS/2 SK-8110 keyboard, and a three-buttons (middle is a wheel) PS/2 eMachines mouse. Both computers and monitor are connected to APC Back-UPS XS BX1500's battery outlets. Everything is not overclocked and are connected to a 8-ports Netgear FS108 switch (10/100) for LAN and Linksys WRT54GL v1.1 Wireless-G 54Mbps router connected to an Ambit/Ubee U10C018 cable modem for Time Warner Cable's High Speed Internet/Road Runner. Also, a Linksys Instant Wireless Network Access Point (802.11b; 2.4 Ghz; 11Mbs; v2.6; WAP11; not always on) for old wireless devices and notebooks/laptops. -- "They are like the ant... They start one way and turn around and go the other way... They look all the time at the ground and never see the sky." --Davi Kopenawa Yanomami, Amazonian Indian (Newsweek 117(17):5, 1991) /\___/\ / /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi(a)earthlink.netANT ( ) or ANTant(a)zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
From: Darren Salt on 5 Dec 2009 20:55 I demand that Ant may or may not have written... > A few days ago, I came home to my already powered on old Linux/Debian > computer desktop (leave it mostly 24/7). I woke it up to log in from its > xmatrix screen saver and sleep. I ran a program (just upgraded VirtualBox > and wanted to test it) and it hard locked up on me. [snip; powered down, eventually] > I turned it on and nothing. No beeps or anything. I did see the Enlight PC > case's green power light blinking like a HDD light which was odd. That's reporting a POST failure. Take note of the blink pattern and look it up in the (service) manual for that board. [snip] > Last night, I got my old box back online, but had to make temporary(?) > scarifices. Basically, it was worse than my other computer hardware friend > and I thought. It was indeed that its Fortron FSP650-80GLC PSU (650 watts) > from 5/14/2007 that went bust. That's... 5/2/2008, right? :-) [snip] > After experimenting, he believed that the CPU's memory controller got > damaged. Also, he thinks using AMD's Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool > down during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause > problems with voltages. Is that even possible to make my PSU and maybe CPU > go bust? Shouldn't do. If it does, I'd say that the chip's defective to start with. (But that's just my opinion, and I'm using that normally.) Although I suppose that it's possible that the dead PSU sent a voltage spike (or something like that) as its last act, but I'll leave the determination of that possibility to the hardware experts :-) Monitoring voltages and temperatures is worth doing, if only to see when they drift outside tolerance. [snip] > Here is what my older box used (similiar results to X2 with different > values) that I am temporarily using according to dmesg: > # dmesg |grep powernow > [ 19.473810] powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ > processors (1 cpu cores) (version 2.20.00) > [ 19.473867] powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0x2 > [ 19.473870] powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0x6 > [ 19.473872] powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xa > [ 19.473874] powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12 Seems normal. > Most of the times, it is slow because I am just surfing, downloading, > chatting, or whatever to make my box not work so hard. Once in a while, it > goes max speed because I am doing something intensive like compiling, > copying files (IDE/PATA/network), etc. Again, seems normal. > What do you think? Maybe I should disable Cool'n'Quiet even though it > will make more heat and use more power during idled times? Thank you in > advance. :) I say leave it on. [snip] -- | Darren Salt | linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Doon | using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds ,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army | + http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/ & http://tlasd.wordpress.com/ Telnet *must* be secure; its encryption has never been broken.
From: Ant on 5 Dec 2009 22:58 On 12/5/2009 5:55 PM PT, Darren Salt typed: >> I turned it on and nothing. No beeps or anything. I did see the Enlight PC >> case's green power light blinking like a HDD light which was odd. > > That's reporting a POST failure. Take note of the blink pattern and look it > up in the (service) manual for that board. http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=downloadfile&dno=4117&type=manual for the PDF manual, but was unable to find anything about the blink and beep patterns. > [snip] >> Last night, I got my old box back online, but had to make temporary(?) >> scarifices. Basically, it was worse than my other computer hardware friend >> and I thought. It was indeed that its Fortron FSP650-80GLC PSU (650 watts) >> from 5/14/2007 that went bust. > > That's... 5/2/2008, right? :-) Uhh, no. I got FSP PSU on 5/14/2007 according to http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html history. > [snip] >> After experimenting, he believed that the CPU's memory controller got >> damaged. Also, he thinks using AMD's Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool >> down during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause >> problems with voltages. Is that even possible to make my PSU and maybe CPU >> go bust? > > Shouldn't do. If it does, I'd say that the chip's defective to start with. > (But that's just my opinion, and I'm using that normally.) Although I suppose > that it's possible that the dead PSU sent a voltage spike (or something like > that) as its last act, but I'll leave the determination of that possibility > to the hardware experts :-) Heh. Well, it is an old CPU since I started using it on Christmas eve in 2006 according to my history list. > Monitoring voltages and temperatures is worth doing, if only to see when they > drift outside tolerance. > > [snip] >> Here is what my older box used (similiar results to X2 with different >> values?) that I am temporarily using according to dmesg: >> # dmesg |grep powernow >> [ 19.473810] powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ >> processors (1 cpu cores) (version 2.20.00) >> [ 19.473867] powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0x2 >> [ 19.473870] powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0x6 >> [ 19.473872] powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xa >> [ 19.473874] powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12 > > Seems normal. Yeah, for now. I can't remember what the values were in the past. I think they were the same. >> Most of the times, it is slow because I am just surfing, downloading, >> chatting, or whatever to make my box not work so hard. Once in a while, it >> goes max speed because I am doing something intensive like compiling, >> copying files (IDE/PATA/network), etc. > > Again, seems normal. OK. >> What do you think? Maybe I should disable Cool'n'Quiet even though it >> will make more heat and use more power during idled times? Thank you in >> advance. :) > > I say leave it on. > > [snip] Alright. :D -- "In an ant colony, dew is a flood." --Afghan /\___/\ / /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi(a)earthlink.netANT ( ) or ANTant(a)zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
From: Darren Salt on 6 Dec 2009 10:27 I demand that Ant may or may not have written... > On 12/5/2009 5:55 PM PT, Darren Salt typed: >>> I turned it on and nothing. No beeps or anything. I did see the Enlight >>> PC case's green power light blinking like a HDD light which was odd. >> That's reporting a POST failure. Take note of the blink pattern and look >> it up in the (service) manual for that board. > http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=downloadfile&dno=4117&type=manual for > the PDF manual, but was unable to find anything about the blink and beep > patterns. Hmm. It's still definitely signalling a failure. Wrong manual, perhaps? (Is there more than one for that board?) >> [snip] >>> Last night, I got my old box back online, but had to make temporary(?) >>> scarifices. Basically, it was worse than my other computer hardware >>> friend and I thought. It was indeed that its Fortron FSP650-80GLC PSU >>> (650 watts) from 5/14/2007 that went bust. >> That's... 5/2/2008, right? :-) > Uhh, no. I got FSP PSU on 5/14/2007 according to > http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html history. Well, given that there are fewer than 14 months in any given year... :-) [snip] -- | Darren Salt | linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Doon | using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds ,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army | + http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/ Hard work never killed anyone but why take a risk?
From: Ant on 6 Dec 2009 17:20
On 12/6/2009 7:27 AM PT, Darren Salt typed: >>> That's reporting a POST failure. Take note of the blink pattern and look >>> it up in the (service) manual for that board. > >> http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=downloadfile&dno=4117&type=manual for >> the PDF manual, but was unable to find anything about the blink and beep >> patterns. > > Hmm. It's still definitely signalling a failure. Wrong manual, perhaps? (Is > there more than one for that board?) Not that I saw. The hardcopy manual I have is the same version 3. -- "The shadows now so long do grow,... That brambles like tall cedars show,... Molehills seem mountains, and the ant... Appears a monstrous elephant." --Charles Cotton's poem /\___/\ / /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi(a)earthlink.netANT ( ) or ANTant(a)zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. |