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From: Nick Naym on 23 Jul 2010 13:26
In article C864A8C1.60F82%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid, Nick Naym
at nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid wrote on 7/15/10 12:00 PM:

> One of my FW externals (used for SD! clone backups) suddenly began to behave
> badly: Wouldn't always mount and/or to dismount. Finally, SD! began to fail
> making clone backups: would go through the routine, but not complete the
> backup, issuing various error messages. The SD! developer suggested shutting
> down the Mac, powering down the drive, and rebooting. That seemed to work
> for a while. But the condition continued to recur, and finally, I could no
> longer use the drive for backups, the incidence of refusing to
> mount/dismount became the norm, and the volume itself is inaccessible.
>
> I decided to reformat/reinitialize the drive. However, my repeated attempts
> to do so fail: After about 10 seconds of churning after I click the
> �partition� button, DU gives up and issues the error message: �Partition
> failed with the error: Could not unmount disk.�
>
....
....


I spoke with LaCie (the drive's manufacturer) tech support, and the
consensus was that whatever corruption occurred on the drive, it was
preventing DU from executing its task. Essentially, tech support claimed
that DU recognizes the drive as formatted for Mac, but can't get beyond the
corruption. The recommendation was to try reformatting on a different Mac
(to see if it's a problem with my machine), or, if I don't have access to
another Mac (which I don't), to reformat the drive for Windows on a Windows
machine, and _then_ try to reformat it back into Mac format on my machine.
That's what I did. The drive was successfully formatted on the Windows box,
and my iMac was able to then reinitialize/reformat the drive.

Well, when I first booted with the newly reinitialize/reformatted drive on
my iMac, it showed up as one would expect a new drive would. However, a
short time later (after my next reboot), the same problems recurred. I've
come to the conclusion that the drive itself is damaged.

I can send the drive back to LaCie, as it's still under warranty. However, I
really don't know if there is any data on the drive. Yes, I reformatted it
in Windows, and yes, I then reformatted it with DU. But I simply don't have
the "warm & fuzzies" that all of the data on the drive truly was wiped
clean. So I'm reluctant to send it back to LaCie. The risk that some data
(e.g., social security numbers, bank account information, etc.) remain may
be small, but even the remote possibility of identity theft is not something
I want to risk.

Is there any way I can go through the process again on the Windows machine
and have the OS (Win XP) do a "secure erase?" I know I can do a secure erase
with DU after Windows does its reformatting...but that assumes that my
second try at using DU to reintialize/reformat the Windows-formatted drive
again succeeds.



--
iMac (27", 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD) � OS X (10.6.3)

From: David Empson on 23 Jul 2010 20:41
Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> In article C864A8C1.60F82%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid, Nick Naym
> at nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid wrote on 7/15/10 12:00 PM:
>
> > One of my FW externals (used for SD! clone backups) suddenly began to behave
> > badly: Wouldn't always mount and/or to dismount. Finally, SD! began to fail
> > making clone backups: would go through the routine, but not complete the
> > backup, issuing various error messages. The SD! developer suggested shutting
> > down the Mac, powering down the drive, and rebooting. That seemed to work
> > for a while. But the condition continued to recur, and finally, I could no
> > longer use the drive for backups, the incidence of refusing to
> > mount/dismount became the norm, and the volume itself is inaccessible.
> >
> > I decided to reformat/reinitialize the drive. However, my repeated attempts
> > to do so fail: After about 10 seconds of churning after I click the
> > "partition" button, DU gives up and issues the error message: "Partition
> > failed with the error: Could not unmount disk."
> >
> ...
> ...
>
>
> I spoke with LaCie (the drive's manufacturer) tech support, and the
> consensus was that whatever corruption occurred on the drive, it was
> preventing DU from executing its task. Essentially, tech support claimed
> that DU recognizes the drive as formatted for Mac, but can't get beyond the
> corruption.

I call bullshit. LaCie is pointing at the wrong problem.

> The recommendation was to try reformatting on a different Mac (to see if
> it's a problem with my machine), or, if I don't have access to another Mac
> (which I don't), to reformat the drive for Windows on a Windows machine,
> and _then_ try to reformat it back into Mac format on my machine. That's
> what I did. The drive was successfully formatted on the Windows box, and
> my iMac was able to then reinitialize/reformat the drive.

This is the key part of the question: when you erased the drive again on
the Mac, did you use the "Erase" tab, and simply selected the Mac file
system, or did you go to the "Partition" tab, choose number of
partitions (1 or more, not "Current"), choose file system for each
partition, click the Options button, select one of the Mac-specific
partition schemes (Apple Partition Map or GUID Partition Table), then
proceed to partition the drive?

If you simply "Erased" the drive, the partition scheme remained the one
set up by the Windows computer when it reformatted the drive.

That would be Master Boot Record. You can confirm this by looking at the
drive information at the bottom of the window in Disk Utility.

A key difference in behaviour between Master Boot Record and other
partition schemes is which sectors it uses near the start of the volume.

Master Boot Record uses the first sector on the drive, then skips the
rest of what it regards as the first track or cylinder (which depends on
the logical block addressing scheme) before starting the first
partition. This means there is a reasonably long run of unused sectors.

Apple Partition Map specifically requires the use of a continuous run of
sectors from the start of the drive: logical block 0 (first sector on
drive) is used to locate device drivers, and the partition table lives
in logical blocks 1 and higher (second sector on the drive and later).

I don't know the specifics of GUID Partition Table, but it also requires
several sectors near the start of the drive.

If you had a bad sector somewhere between the second sector and the end
of the first nominal track, then Master Boot Record would be OK, but
either of Apple's standard partition schemes would fail.

> Well, when I first booted with the newly reinitialize/reformatted drive on
> my iMac, it showed up as one would expect a new drive would. However, a
> short time later (after my next reboot), the same problems recurred. I've
> come to the conclusion that the drive itself is damaged.

I agree. There was a bad sector near the start of the drive, and the
problem has spread.

> I can send the drive back to LaCie, as it's still under warranty. However, I
> really don't know if there is any data on the drive. Yes, I reformatted it
> in Windows

Did you tell Windows to erase every sector on the drive? If not, the
data will all be there.

You would have noticed this - it takes hours to fully erase a modern
hard drive.

A normal "format" or "erase" will simply write a new directory (and
possibly partition table, depending on the software), leaving every
other sector on the drive unmodified.

> and yes, I then reformatted it with DU. But I simply don't have the "warm
> & fuzzies" that all of the data on the drive truly was wiped clean. So I'm
> reluctant to send it back to LaCie. The risk that some data (e.g., social
> security numbers, bank account information, etc.) remain may be small, but
> even the remote possibility of identity theft is not something I want to
> risk.

You could try using the erase with zero data option in Disk Utility, but
it might fail if it encounters a bad sector.

> Is there any way I can go through the process again on the Windows machine
> and have the OS (Win XP) do a "secure erase?" I know I can do a secure erase
> with DU after Windows does its reformatting...but that assumes that my
> second try at using DU to reintialize/reformat the Windows-formatted drive
> again succeeds.

I don't know enough about options presented by Windows formatting tools.
I'd expect there to be a secure erase option (a single pass is
sufficient unless you are really paranoid).

--
David Empson
dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz
From: Kevin McMurtrie on 24 Jul 2010 03:54
In article <C86F48E8.617F6%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>,
Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> In article C864A8C1.60F82%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid, Nick Naym
> at nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid wrote on 7/15/10 12:00 PM:
>
> > One of my FW externals (used for SD! clone backups) suddenly began to behave
> > badly: Wouldn't always mount and/or to dismount. Finally, SD! began to fail
> > making clone backups: would go through the routine, but not complete the
> > backup, issuing various error messages. The SD! developer suggested shutting
> > down the Mac, powering down the drive, and rebooting. That seemed to work
> > for a while. But the condition continued to recur, and finally, I could no
> > longer use the drive for backups, the incidence of refusing to
> > mount/dismount became the norm, and the volume itself is inaccessible.
> >
> > I decided to reformat/reinitialize the drive. However, my repeated attempts
> > to do so fail: After about 10 seconds of churning after I click the
> > �partition� button, DU gives up and issues the error message: �Partition
> > failed with the error: Could not unmount disk.�
> >
> ...
> ...
>
>
> I spoke with LaCie (the drive's manufacturer) tech support, and the
> consensus was that whatever corruption occurred on the drive, it was
> preventing DU from executing its task. Essentially, tech support claimed
> that DU recognizes the drive as formatted for Mac, but can't get beyond the
> corruption. The recommendation was to try reformatting on a different Mac
> (to see if it's a problem with my machine), or, if I don't have access to
> another Mac (which I don't), to reformat the drive for Windows on a Windows
> machine, and _then_ try to reformat it back into Mac format on my machine.
> That's what I did. The drive was successfully formatted on the Windows box,
> and my iMac was able to then reinitialize/reformat the drive.
>
> Well, when I first booted with the newly reinitialize/reformatted drive on
> my iMac, it showed up as one would expect a new drive would. However, a
> short time later (after my next reboot), the same problems recurred. I've
> come to the conclusion that the drive itself is damaged.
>
> I can send the drive back to LaCie, as it's still under warranty. However, I
> really don't know if there is any data on the drive. Yes, I reformatted it
> in Windows, and yes, I then reformatted it with DU. But I simply don't have
> the "warm & fuzzies" that all of the data on the drive truly was wiped
> clean. So I'm reluctant to send it back to LaCie. The risk that some data
> (e.g., social security numbers, bank account information, etc.) remain may
> be small, but even the remote possibility of identity theft is not something
> I want to risk.
>
> Is there any way I can go through the process again on the Windows machine
> and have the OS (Win XP) do a "secure erase?" I know I can do a secure erase
> with DU after Windows does its reformatting...but that assumes that my
> second try at using DU to reintialize/reformat the Windows-formatted drive
> again succeeds.

It sounds like a bad firewire interface. I bet a FW 800 to FW 400
adaptor cable gets it working so that you can zero the drive before
returning it.
--
I won't see Google Groups replies because I must filter them as spam
From: Nick Naym on 24 Jul 2010 21:31
In article 1jm4r6a.th761p6cxh8N%dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz, David Empson at
dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz wrote on 7/23/10 8:41 PM:

> Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article C864A8C1.60F82%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid, Nick Naym
>> at nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid wrote on 7/15/10 12:00 PM:
>>
>>> One of my FW externals (used for SD! clone backups) suddenly began to behave
>>> badly: Wouldn't always mount and/or to dismount. Finally, SD! began to fail
>>> making clone backups: would go through the routine, but not complete the
>>> backup, issuing various error messages. The SD! developer suggested shutting
>>> down the Mac, powering down the drive, and rebooting. That seemed to work
>>> for a while. But the condition continued to recur, and finally, I could no
>>> longer use the drive for backups, the incidence of refusing to
>>> mount/dismount became the norm, and the volume itself is inaccessible.
>>>
>>> I decided to reformat/reinitialize the drive. However, my repeated attempts
>>> to do so fail: After about 10 seconds of churning after I click the
>>> "partition" button, DU gives up and issues the error message: "Partition
>>> failed with the error: Could not unmount disk."
>>>
>> ...
>> ...
>>
>>
>> I spoke with LaCie (the drive's manufacturer) tech support, and the
>> consensus was that whatever corruption occurred on the drive, it was
>> preventing DU from executing its task. Essentially, tech support claimed
>> that DU recognizes the drive as formatted for Mac, but can't get beyond the
>> corruption.
>
> I call bullshit. LaCie is pointing at the wrong problem.
>
>> The recommendation was to try reformatting on a different Mac (to see if
>> it's a problem with my machine), or, if I don't have access to another Mac
>> (which I don't), to reformat the drive for Windows on a Windows machine,
>> and _then_ try to reformat it back into Mac format on my machine. That's
>> what I did. The drive was successfully formatted on the Windows box, and
>> my iMac was able to then reinitialize/reformat the drive.
>
> This is the key part of the question: when you erased the drive again on
> the Mac, did you use the "Erase" tab, and simply selected the Mac file
> system, or did you go to the "Partition" tab, choose number of
> partitions (1 or more, not "Current"), choose file system for each
> partition, click the Options button, select one of the Mac-specific
> partition schemes (Apple Partition Map or GUID Partition Table), then
> proceed to partition the drive?
>
> If you simply "Erased" the drive, the partition scheme remained the one
> set up by the Windows computer when it reformatted the drive.
>
....


.....


No, no, no...I went through the whole exercise: I reinitialized the
drive...repartitioned it, renamed the volume, and began all over again. I
didn't bother with the erase tab at all.

Now, here's the strange part. Last night I was able to get it working: It
was recognized by my machine just like it always had been before. The only
noticeable difference was its name (I _did_ rename the volume), and its
contents (nothing visible, as I never got far enough the first time around
to return the drive to its job as a target for SuperDuper!.

I then had DU do a "zero out," as I wanted to be very sure that there was
nothing on the drive -- I figured that I could then re-reinitialize the
drive, and go on from there. After that, I did reinitialize the drive (yet
again). I then decided I'd see ho it worked via the other interface (it's
got both USB and FW). Well, after rebooting, the hardware showed up, but not
the volume. Repeated reboots showed the same thing...though occasonally the
volume would show, but any attempts to run DU on the volume resulted ib the
same inability to execute and error messages I started with. So, I shut it
down and threw up my hands (again).

I just tried it a short while ago....now it mounted! I'm repartitioning with
a zero-out option as I did before. I'll see what happens. If it does succeed
(as it had before), I don't know what I'll conclude -- or what I should then
do.



--
iMac (27", 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD) � OS X (10.6.3)

From: Nick Naym on 24 Jul 2010 21:35
In article 4c4a9c24$0$22153$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net, Kevin McMurtrie at
mcmurtrie(a)pixelmemory.us wrote on 7/24/10 3:54 AM:

> In article <C86F48E8.617F6%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>,
> Nick Naym <nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article C864A8C1.60F82%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid, Nick Naym
>> at nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid wrote on 7/15/10 12:00 PM:
>>
>>> One of my FW externals (used for SD! clone backups) suddenly began to behave
>>> badly: Wouldn't always mount and/or to dismount. Finally, SD! began to fail
>>> making clone backups: would go through the routine, but not complete the
>>> backup, issuing various error messages. The SD! developer suggested shutting
>>> down the Mac, powering down the drive, and rebooting. That seemed to work
>>> for a while. But the condition continued to recur, and finally, I could no
>>> longer use the drive for backups, the incidence of refusing to
>>> mount/dismount became the norm, and the volume itself is inaccessible.
>>>
>>> I decided to reformat/reinitialize the drive. However, my repeated attempts
>>> to do so fail: After about 10 seconds of churning after I click the
>>> �partition� button, DU gives up and issues the error message: �Partition
>>> failed with the error: Could not unmount disk.�
>>>
>> ...
>> ...
>> ...
....
....
>
> It sounds like a bad firewire interface. I bet a FW 800 to FW 400
> adaptor cable gets it working so that you can zero the drive before
> returning it.

You're suggesting that the drive's FW 800 interface is bad?


--
iMac (27", 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD) � OS X (10.6.3)

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