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From: Joerg on 1 Aug 2010 17:14
Just curious: Why is it that "modern" TV/VCR/DVD devices only allow
auto-scan for DTV channels but no "add some later"? As most of us know
DTV is unreliable, meaning sometimes channel 6-1 pixelates out,
sometimes 58-2 is gone. So upon setup it will only catch the ones that
are currently receivable, which in our case is never more than 80% of
digital channels. Changes all the time.

But you can't add, it does a complete new setup, upon which Murphy says
it'll miss a few channels it had detected on the previous run. That I
find a rather daft technical decision. Is it just me thinking that or is
the cleverness in electronics designs really taking a nose-dive?

Sorry for the rant, but I had to let it out.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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From: Jan Panteltje on 1 Aug 2010 17:24
On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:14:29 -0700) it happened Joerg
<invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in <8bm6dmF9dpU1(a)mid.individual.net>:

>Just curious: Why is it that "modern" TV/VCR/DVD devices only allow
>auto-scan for DTV channels but no "add some later"? As most of us know
>DTV is unreliable, meaning sometimes channel 6-1 pixelates out,
>sometimes 58-2 is gone. So upon setup it will only catch the ones that
>are currently receivable, which in our case is never more than 80% of
>digital channels. Changes all the time.
>
>But you can't add, it does a complete new setup, upon which Murphy says
>it'll miss a few channels it had detected on the previous run. That I
>find a rather daft technical decision. Is it just me thinking that or is
>the cleverness in electronics designs really taking a nose-dive?
>
>Sorry for the rant, but I had to let it out.

I dunno what stuff you use, but here it is very possible to add a frequency
or station, or sat.
That is both for satellite, terrestrial, both radio, TV, and data.
DTV is not 'unreliable', in fact is is very reliable, but it needs a minimal signal
strength for things to lock.
You should now about PLLs, Viterbi decoding, etc.
Did you ever put a decent yagi or some otehr good antenna on the roof?


From: Rich Webb on 1 Aug 2010 17:30
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:14:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>Just curious: Why is it that "modern" TV/VCR/DVD devices only allow
>auto-scan for DTV channels but no "add some later"? As most of us know
>DTV is unreliable, meaning sometimes channel 6-1 pixelates out,
>sometimes 58-2 is gone. So upon setup it will only catch the ones that
>are currently receivable, which in our case is never more than 80% of
>digital channels. Changes all the time.
>
>But you can't add, it does a complete new setup, upon which Murphy says
>it'll miss a few channels it had detected on the previous run. That I
>find a rather daft technical decision. Is it just me thinking that or is
>the cleverness in electronics designs really taking a nose-dive?
>
>Sorry for the rant, but I had to let it out.

It depends entirely on how ... thoughtful? ... the firmware developers
were (or were allowed to be?). One of the converter boxes here (yup,
still have old analog CRTs) allows direct entry of the channel +
subchannel, either to view or to add. Another permits an "add new
channels" scan which only adds but won't delete existing ones if it
doesn't see them.

Other features are all over the map, as well. I did spring for a small,
modern LCD with ATSC tuner when one of the CRTs went poof. Yeah, it has
a super picture but it has an awful channel guide: only the current
program name and only for the current channel. And most of the time
(like, almost always) the displayed time of day and time of the program
are incorrect by hours -- with different offsets for different stations.
I'm guessing some programmer forgot his "#pragma packed" or something.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
From: Joerg on 1 Aug 2010 17:40
Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:14:29 -0700) it happened Joerg
> <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in <8bm6dmF9dpU1(a)mid.individual.net>:
>
>> Just curious: Why is it that "modern" TV/VCR/DVD devices only allow
>> auto-scan for DTV channels but no "add some later"? As most of us know
>> DTV is unreliable, meaning sometimes channel 6-1 pixelates out,
>> sometimes 58-2 is gone. So upon setup it will only catch the ones that
>> are currently receivable, which in our case is never more than 80% of
>> digital channels. Changes all the time.
>>
>> But you can't add, it does a complete new setup, upon which Murphy says
>> it'll miss a few channels it had detected on the previous run. That I
>> find a rather daft technical decision. Is it just me thinking that or is
>> the cleverness in electronics designs really taking a nose-dive?
>>
>> Sorry for the rant, but I had to let it out.
>
> I dunno what stuff you use, but here it is very possible to add a frequency
> or station, or sat.


Mostly the Magnavox brand. Which is AFAIK essentially Philips. But it
all seems designed and built by Funai. The lastest box it even says it
bluntly in the manual, "add-on" only for analog TV channels. Which no
longer exist out here when using terrestrial.


> That is both for satellite, terrestrial, both radio, TV, and data.
> DTV is not 'unreliable', in fact is is very reliable, but it needs a minimal signal
> strength for things to lock.


ATSC is unreliable. Ask any neighbor here who uses an antenna.


> You should now about PLLs, Viterbi decoding, etc.


I do, but it seems the guys who developed and tested ATSC (or shall I
say didn't test enough?) may not :-)


> Did you ever put a decent yagi or some otehr good antenna on the roof?
>

Yep, top of the line ChannelMaster. The biggest honking one there is.
With mast amp, professional distribution and so on.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 1 Aug 2010 17:48
Rich Webb wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:14:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Just curious: Why is it that "modern" TV/VCR/DVD devices only allow
>> auto-scan for DTV channels but no "add some later"? As most of us know
>> DTV is unreliable, meaning sometimes channel 6-1 pixelates out,
>> sometimes 58-2 is gone. So upon setup it will only catch the ones that
>> are currently receivable, which in our case is never more than 80% of
>> digital channels. Changes all the time.
>>
>> But you can't add, it does a complete new setup, upon which Murphy says
>> it'll miss a few channels it had detected on the previous run. That I
>> find a rather daft technical decision. Is it just me thinking that or is
>> the cleverness in electronics designs really taking a nose-dive?
>>
>> Sorry for the rant, but I had to let it out.
>
> It depends entirely on how ... thoughtful? ... the firmware developers
> were (or were allowed to be?). One of the converter boxes here (yup,
> still have old analog CRTs) allows direct entry of the channel +
> subchannel, either to view or to add. Another permits an "add new
> channels" scan which only adds but won't delete existing ones if it
> doesn't see them.
>

I helped set up one LCD-TV that could add on DTV channels. The others
didn't :-(


> Other features are all over the map, as well. I did spring for a small,
> modern LCD with ATSC tuner when one of the CRTs went poof. Yeah, it has
> a super picture but it has an awful channel guide: only the current
> program name and only for the current channel. And most of the time
> (like, almost always) the displayed time of day and time of the program
> are incorrect by hours -- with different offsets for different stations.
> I'm guessing some programmer forgot his "#pragma packed" or something.
>

What I am wondering is whether any of this stuff ever gets test-driven
in the field. In the areas I work in (med, aero, and similar) that is
mandatory and deficiencies like this would hit the fan almost instantly.

The sad thing is, I've even seen similar things happen with "modern" lab
equipment. Which is why I often recommend to my clients to shun new
stuff and look for a particular boat anchor at liquidations or auctions.
They don't make'em like that no more.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
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