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From: David Stone on 30 Mar 2010 15:47
In article <Zersn.4762$4c4.4331(a)uutiset.elisa.fi>,
"Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela(a)cs.tut.fi> wrote:

> Swifty wrote:
>
> > It is Opera 10.10, and my test page is at
> > http://swiftys.org.uk/monospace.html
>
> I see no problem with that on my Opera 10.10, assuming you really want code
> to appear in a monospace font, which is mostly just an old and bad habit.
>
> > In order to notice what I'm talking about you need a browser
> > configured such that text inside <PRE> comes out in a sans-serif font.
> > Opera does this by specifying the font to be used by "monospace text".
> > I normally choose Andale Mono or Bitstream Vera Mono.
>
> I haven't got those, so I chose Arial, which is surely sans-serif. It's
> unnatural, as Airal is not monospace, but I'll do that for testing. No
> effect observable, and none was expected, as the page sets the font
> explicitly.
>
> > Then, the surprise is that when you specify "font-family:monospace"
> > you get Times New Roman.
>
> No, I see some monospace font.
>
> > If there is no error in my CSS, then it seems that Opera thinks that
> > "font-family:monospace" is not monospace text.
>
> I thinks this is an issue with Opera. I've mostly lost interest in it when
> they removed the simple and nice toggling between author mode and user mode.

In Opera (Mac) 9.5.1, if you switch View -> Style -> User Mode, whatever
setting you have in preferences for "Normal font" (or set for "Web page
normal text" under the Advanced tab) overrides the <pre> font and makes
the text appear as one continuous wrapped line. Switching back to author
mode returns the text to whatever is set for monospace and restores the
line breaks.

So this does indeed look like a problem with Opera, especially since
there appears to be no problem in either Safari or FireFox. Note though
that FireFox treats the tabs in your comments differently to Safari, so
that the */ on each line don't align vertically. You also might want to
"prrof"-read your text ;)
From: Mason C on 31 Mar 2010 01:35
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:04:53 +0100, Swifty <steve.j.swift(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:15:48 +0300, "Jukka K. Korpela"
><jkorpela(a)cs.tut.fi> wrote:
>
>>I thinks this is an issue with Opera. I've mostly lost interest in it when
>>they removed the simple and nice toggling between author mode and user mode.
>
>I agree that it is probably Opera. It remains to be seen if Opera
>agrees.
>
>I have a button that does that toggling. Was there something simpler
>and nicer?

My Opera always has had that button. I couldn't be simpler.
The user mode has a dozen css options including your own design.
I force black-on-white text among other simplifications.

My Opera upgraded itself to 10.51 the other day -- to my surprise!
It has some improvements and caused me 30 minutes of confusion.
Among other things, w3c validation is at your finger tips.
It's management of narrow screens is miraculous -- if you care.

The main problem with Opera is too many options for customization.
Human users find it *too much* and go back to MSIE, FireFox, Safari or
some other primitive browser.

MasonC (I've found the solution to my index page(s) )
From: Swifty on 31 Mar 2010 02:25
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:47:45 -0400, David Stone
<no.email(a)domain.invalid> wrote:

>Note though
>that FireFox treats the tabs in your comments differently to Safari, so
>that the */ on each line don't align vertically. You also might want to
>"prrof"-read your text ;)

I've abandoned hope of getting the trailing "*/" aligned. It's more
complex than a Firefox/Safari difference though.

As you may have realised, the content is the output from the linux
"diff" command. I'm comparing production code with development code.

In the code, the indentation is done with multiple blanks, and the
alignment of the comment delimiters is done with tabs. After you've
put that through diff the alignments get lost. If you leave the tabs
as tabs then the prefix that diff adds to the lines tips some of the
tabs further right. If you change the tabs to blanks in diff, you get
a milder version of the same problem, probably from the HTML. It would
probably work with <PRE>.

It's not really worth the effort for what is just a quick way of
seeing the changes on some code. But I have an irrational dislike of
Times New Roman. I'll expend any amount of effort to get rid of that
font.

--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html
http://www.ringers.org.uk
From: Andreas Prilop on 31 Mar 2010 10:03
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> You are mistaken.

> Wrong.

Sorry, the five minutes is up.
From: Andreas Prilop on 31 Mar 2010 10:39
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, I wrote:

> Versions 5, 6, 7. I haven't checked version 8 yet for this case.
>
>>> http://www.user.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/temp/serif.html

Internet Explorer 8 still has only one "Webpage font" and
one "Plain text font" for each language script. You cannot
define your own serif and sans-serif typefaces in IE.

--
In memoriam Alan J. Flavell
http://www.alanflavell.org.uk/charset/
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