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From: CyberTaz on 2 Jun 2010 07:18
What, exactly, of what I wrote is 'untrue'?

Have you any idea how many "if"s & conditional statements you've included in
this contradiction, Pam? There's absolutely no indication in Office User's
description that *any* of those complexities are wanted or needed. In fact,
the desire to keep the document "simple" is the point - That's exactly what
the OP is striving for as indicated in the statement "Having trouble keeping
the headers and page numbering fluid/consecutive across section breaks". The
subject document is a 10-12 page report, not a 500 page technical manual.

Complexity is imposed by a user deviating from the defaults... Often
unnecessarily.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac


On 6/1/10 5:22 PM, in article a8e4abf464b4a(a)uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via
OfficeKB.com" <u43222(a)uwe> wrote:

> CyberTaz, what you say is only true for simple documents. Header/footer
> behavior is complicated and difficult to troubleshoot in complex documents
> unless you know quite a lot about them.
> If you have front matter that has no or different header/footers, then the
> first main content section header/footers will likely be changed to unlink
> it from the front matter header/footer and they may be set for different
> first page. A new section after that will duplicate the settings of the
> first main section, including page number settings. If the new section is a
> continuous section break that does not cross pages, you may only see its
> effect on later pages. These things can result in restarted page numbers,
> duplicate page numbers, wrong text or text placement, and so forth. They are
> often not noticed until the document is nearly ready for printing. Been
> there.
>
> Office User, you can learn more about headers and footers here:
> http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm
>
> The key is to know what to check for (link to previous, header/footer type,
> and page number setting) to either prevent problems or fix them.
>
> Pam
>
> CyberTaz wrote:
>> Additional to Suzanne's reply: There's no reason the same header can't run
>> continuously through the entire document regardless of the number of
>> sections. In fact, that's the default behavior. IOW, section breaks simply
>> allow the change, they don't require it as long as the properties are
>> correctly specified.
>>
>> Regards |:>)
>> Bob Jones
>> [MVP] Office:Mac
>>
>> On 6/1/10 11:41 AM, in article
>> D563D826-7DB1-4A47-A368-0AAAA40C3666(a)microsoft.com, "Office User"
>> <OfficeUser(a)discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Good Morning,
>>>
>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>>
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

From: Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com on 2 Jun 2010 15:20
I wrote "what you say is only true for simple documents". Not that what you
said was untrue. Office User said "Having trouble keeping the headers and
page numbering fluid/consecutive across section breaks" and explained that he
has double and single column sections. Okay, I inferred that some of the
sections are continuous. I often have to fix such documents. The clients
haven't a clue.

Pam


CyberTaz wrote:
>What, exactly, of what I wrote is 'untrue'?
>
>Have you any idea how many "if"s & conditional statements you've included in
>this contradiction, Pam? There's absolutely no indication in Office User's
>description that *any* of those complexities are wanted or needed. In fact,
>the desire to keep the document "simple" is the point - That's exactly what
>the OP is striving for as indicated in the statement "Having trouble keeping
>the headers and page numbering fluid/consecutive across section breaks". The
>subject document is a 10-12 page report, not a 500 page technical manual.
>
>Complexity is imposed by a user deviating from the defaults... Often
>unnecessarily.
>
>Regards |:>)
>Bob Jones
>[MVP] Office:Mac
>
>On 6/1/10 5:22 PM, in article a8e4abf464b4a(a)uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via
>OfficeKB.com" <u43222(a)uwe> wrote:
>
>> CyberTaz, what you say is only true for simple documents. Header/footer
>> behavior is complicated and difficult to troubleshoot in complex documents
>[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--
Message posted via http://www.officekb.com

From: CyberTaz on 2 Jun 2010 19:01
I'm sorry, but as I understand the English language, if something is
categorized as only true under certain conditions it is implicitly false
under any other conditions. Perhaps we can debate what constitutes a
"complex" vs. "simple" document, but in the context of the thread it would
still be subjective as to where the document in question might fall.

The fact remains, though, that the imposition of Continuous section breaks
-- or any other type -- neither inherently disrupts the continuity of
Headers or Footers, nor interferes with page numbering. Further, it makes
absolutely no difference whether the CSBs span a single empty paragraph or
multiple pages... or even whether there are several CSBs on a single page.

I don't doubt that you may have had to "fix such documents", but it isn't
the fault of the section breaks that the documents needed fixing. It's how
the sections were mangled that caused the breakage.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac



On 6/2/10 3:20 PM, in article a8f02e1f70c60(a)uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via
OfficeKB.com" <u43222(a)uwe> wrote:

> I wrote "what you say is only true for simple documents". Not that what you
> said was untrue. Office User said "Having trouble keeping the headers and
> page numbering fluid/consecutive across section breaks" and explained that he
> has double and single column sections. Okay, I inferred that some of the
> sections are continuous. I often have to fix such documents. The clients
> haven't a clue.
>
> Pam
>
>
> CyberTaz wrote:
>> What, exactly, of what I wrote is 'untrue'?
>>
>> Have you any idea how many "if"s & conditional statements you've included in
>> this contradiction, Pam? There's absolutely no indication in Office User's
>> description that *any* of those complexities are wanted or needed. In fact,
>> the desire to keep the document "simple" is the point - That's exactly what
>> the OP is striving for as indicated in the statement "Having trouble keeping
>> the headers and page numbering fluid/consecutive across section breaks". The
>> subject document is a 10-12 page report, not a 500 page technical manual.
>>
>> Complexity is imposed by a user deviating from the defaults... Often
>> unnecessarily.
>>
>> Regards |:>)
>> Bob Jones
>> [MVP] Office:Mac
>>
>> On 6/1/10 5:22 PM, in article a8e4abf464b4a(a)uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via
>> OfficeKB.com" <u43222(a)uwe> wrote:
>>
>>> CyberTaz, what you say is only true for simple documents. Header/footer
>>> behavior is complicated and difficult to troubleshoot in complex documents
>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

From: Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com on 2 Jun 2010 22:09
CyberTaz wrote:
>The fact remains, though, that the imposition of Continuous section breaks
>-- or any other type -- neither inherently disrupts the continuity of
>Headers or Footers, nor interferes with page numbering. Further, it makes
>absolutely no difference whether the CSBs span a single empty paragraph or
>multiple pages... or even whether there are several CSBs on a single page.

I very much disagree with you on this point. Try this: in a new document
header, add the page number code and set the page numbering to start at 22.
Add page breaks until you get to page 26. Add some text, select it, and make
it double column. Add a page break after the text. The next page number
shown will be 23.

The band-aid fix is to change 23 to 27. But later changes to the document
that cause section 3 to cross pages will bring the page number problem back.
The better fix is to go to the header for section 3 (& any later sections, as
appropriate) and set the page number start value to continuous.
The best "fix" is to understand that Word replicates section settings in new
sections and to fix it before leaving the page.


Pam

--
Message posted via OfficeKB.com
http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/word-docmanagement/201006/1

From: CyberTaz on 3 Jun 2010 06:54



On 6/2/10 10:09 PM, in article a8f3c0034116a(a)uwe, "Pamelia Caswell via
OfficeKB.com" <u43222(a)uwe> wrote:

> CyberTaz wrote:
>> The fact remains, though, that the imposition of Continuous section breaks
>> -- or any other type -- neither inherently disrupts the continuity of
>> Headers or Footers, nor interferes with page numbering. Further, it makes
>> absolutely no difference whether the CSBs span a single empty paragraph or
>> multiple pages... or even whether there are several CSBs on a single page.
>
> I very much disagree with you on this point. Try this: in a new document
> header, add the page number code and set the page numbering to start at 22.
> Add page breaks until you get to page 26. Add some text, select it, and make
> it double column. Add a page break after the text. The next page number
> shown will be 23.

You don't seem to realize that you have done nothing here but reinforce the
very points I am making. I would never consider doing any such hatchet job
for experimental or any other purpose. *Anything* can be expected to fail if
it's jerry-rigged to do so. If you want a *valid* test of what I'm saying:

1- Create the new document & populate it with =rand(40,17),
2- Create you Header/Footer & include page numbers,
3- Select as many portions as you wish, each of whatever length you prefer &
apply your columnar layout as you go.

There will be NO disruption to the H/F or page numbering. This is what the
OP was attempting to do. Anything beyond that is irrelevant.

If you then want to hack at it in the manner you describe [i.e., "Add a page
break after the text."] I can't be held accountable for the consequences...
Nor can the original section breaks.

>
> The band-aid fix is to change 23 to 27. But later changes to the document
> that cause section 3 to cross pages will bring the page number problem back.
> The better fix is to go to the header for section 3 (& any later sections, as
> appropriate) and set the page number start value to continuous.
> The best "fix" is to understand that Word replicates section settings in new
> sections and to fix it before leaving the page.

.... Or to avoid creating such a shambles in the first place. Quite frankly,
though, when I have to rework a document that has been mismanaged as badly
as what you describe I consider the "best fix" to reconstruct it.

You've conveniently snipped the last paragraph of my reply which pertains to
every aspect of your response, so I'll reinsert it here:

>>> I don't doubt that you may have had to "fix such documents", but it isn't
>>> the fault of the section breaks that the documents needed fixing. It's how
>>> the sections were mangled that caused the breakage.
>
>
> Pam

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

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