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From: Natxo Asenjo on 30 Jun 2010 16:10
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Tom H. Lautenbacher
<mailinglists(a)lautenbacher.biz> wrote:
> I do not think that it is neither intended by MS nor normal to take so long.
>
> I am using roaming profiles in a network with Vista64Business clients.
> Although the users (mainly image processing work on a professional level)
> tend to have rather huge user profiles (100MB-2 GB is normal, the max what I
> had seen was 32GB), those login/logouts are actually speedy compared to the
> Win7-64-pro userprofile that I have just freshly created and that is only a
> few kilobytes in size.
>
> A second thing is that the problem concerns only the initial creation of the
> Win7 profile; it takes approx. 40 minutes). All subsequent logins/logouts
> are very fast and take approx. only 10-20 seconds.
> The comparison of those values shows that it is more but just an delay
> because of the creation of some kilobytes of files.
>
> The third thing is that I am having the same problem with programs that I
> start. Programs that are installed locally on the client! When I am starting
> them for the first time, I am having a delay of 5-10 Minutes until the
> program starts. The subsequent times I start the program, it starts
> instantly.
>
> I am guessing that the problem has something to do with DNS or other
> network-layer issues. Or maybe it is the Client searching for something on
> the Samba server that is not existing?? It seems like the workstation Is
> sending some query to samba and then waits ages for a timeout or something.
> There is almost no network traffic the time that I am waiting....

with xp/2003 you could turn on the userenv.log, but apparently this
does not work with windows 7
(http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/winserverGP/thread/a9b36648-aa9f-4ff7-b23f-c1123b7984e9);
so check the event log of the client and/or use process monitor from
sysinternals to get a log of what is going on it. See this
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2010/01/13/3305263.aspx
for inspiration.

good luck!

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From: Tom H. Lautenbacher on 30 Jun 2010 16:30
Ok I think it helps if I summarize my problem:

Client: Windows 7 Professional, 64bit, English
Server: openSUSE 11.2, running Samba 3.4.3 as a PDC

Login as Local user:
=====================
First time login: Profile is being created very fast
Further logins: Profile is being loaded very fast
First time launch of software: Instant startup of software
Further launches of software: Instant startup of software

Login as domain user:
=====================
First time login: Profile creation takes AGES (30-50 minutes)
Further logins: Profile is being loaded very fast (10-20 seconds)
First time launch of locally installed software: Startup of software takes
ages (approx 3-6 minutes)
Further launches of locally installed software: Instant startup of software


> I'd ask on one of the windows groups -- maybe some MVP would know.

Ok!

> that or try tracing the actions with the 'sysinternal' tools
> (at the ms website now)...you can use 'process monitor' to
> see what a process is doing -- shows you network registry and file
> accesses -- and its free.
>
> Their creator works for MS now ...type in sysinternals.com -- it
> redirects to the microsoft website now.

Thank you I will check that out!

> I doubt it's samba -- since no one else is seeing that symptom...

I think it is, since I am having this effect only when using my roaming
profile!
But I think that the group of users using the following combination:
"Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a PDC & roaming profiles & using
this mailing list & being able to report the problem"
is very limited until today..

> maybe some antivirus interaction?
Will check with sysinternals but assume no, because oft he
locally-is-everything-fine thing.

> the login/logouts -- read about them on MS's website...look up
> under profile loading ... it talks about how multi-gig profiles
> will really slow down first time loading.

As I wrote, I am having the problem with FRESH CREATED profiles, which are
just a few kilobytes of size!

> If you think it is a network problem,
> use "wireshark" -- it will let you observe the network traffic.
>
> (google it) it's also free.

Thank you Linda.

> You need to become familiar with all these diagnotic tools
> (that and get yourself a "procmail" email filter so you can filter
> out all the garbage from all the email groups you have to subscribe
> to to just keep things working!)...

Do you know a good windows-alternative to procmail? Isn't the new outlook
2010 able to group emails into threads?

> > Seriously -- I have nearly 80 email groups I sub to...if I didn't filter
> I'd just 'lose it'...but they all go into folders and I read them when
> I want...if I don't, I have them setup to automatically expire after
> a few months... it's just like a forum, but better....since it's
> all in one place! :-)

Well I am attending to about 20 forums and I am having everything in one
place too: My email-mailbox as soon as I am getting an answer to my postings
:-) But not 10000 other emails that need further processing ;-)

> Good luck...! Lemmy know if I can point you at any
> tools -- look for open source ones (or MS supported ones)...
>
> that way you have less to worry about in the way of viruses! :-)

Ok, thank you!

Cheers,
Tom

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From: John Drescher on 30 Jun 2010 16:40
> But I think that the group of users using the following combination:
> "Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a PDC & roaming profiles & using
> this mailing list & being able to report the problem"
> is very limited until today..
>

I am using roaming profiles with windows 7 64 and samba PDC / BDCs. I
am not using 3.4.3 however. Currently we are running 3.5.4. I did have
3.4.6 for a few weeks just after the upgrade from 3.0.37 to support
windows 7. I do not have the 40 minute initial logins. However it does
take me 5 minutes to login and logout on a 100% gigabit network every
single time not just the first time. At some point I will look into
folder redirection on top of the trimming of the profiles that I have
begun..

John
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From: Linda W on 30 Jun 2010 17:10



>> I doubt it's samba -- since no one else is seeing that symptom...
>
> I think it is, since I am having this effect only when using my roaming
> profile!
> But I think that the group of users using the following combination:
> "Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a PDC & roaming profiles & using
> this mailing list & being able to report the problem"
> is very limited until today..
----
Well -- not exactly -- I have almost the same symptom -- but
on logout -- it takes up to 45 minutes for my Win7 profile to be
copied to my PDC. But I've tried Samba 3.5.2, 3.5.3 and 3.5.3.
Hey...that's something to try. Try the latest released version and
see if you have the same symptoms/problems!

But I am using both a Win7-64 and WinXP client to log into my
PDC and generate continuous havoc. Just wait until you try using winbind
to authenticate security on your linux PDC! Ha! Warning -- keep
a rescue disk around in case you get locked out of your system! ;^]

On top of roaming profiles, I used the group policy client
to create roaming profiles for all clients -- even if they were
not part of the domain! (this was when I was having problems
joining my computers to the domain reliably).

Anyway -- I have long logins on Win7 (~ 4-5 minutes,
vs. about 20 seconds on XP). Where I get the real long pauses are
on logout -- I've seen it finsh after 45 minutes one time -- the
clients are communicating to the PDC but at speeds usually <100K/s.

I know that it is not likely to be samba's fault in regards
to the speed, since I get *up to* 100MB read/write to samba during
benchmark testing.


>
>> maybe some antivirus interaction?
> Will check with sysinternals but assume no, because oft he
> locally-is-everything-fine thing.
>
>> the login/logouts -- read about them on MS's website...look up
>> under profile loading ... it talks about how multi-gig profiles
>> will really slow down first time loading.
>
> As I wrote, I am having the problem with FRESH CREATED profiles, which are
> just a few kilobytes of size!
---
Ok -- that's just weird. No argument!


>
>> If you think it is a network problem,
>> use "wireshark" -- it will let you observe the network traffic.
>>
>> (google it) it's also free.
>
> Thank you Linda.
>
>> You need to become familiar with all these diagnotic tools
>> (that and get yourself a "procmail" email filter so you can filter
>> out all the garbage from all the email groups you have to subscribe
>> to to just keep things working!)...
>
> Do you know a good windows-alternative to procmail? Isn't the new outlook
> 2010 able to group emails into threads?
----
You can run all the linux utils -- including procmail under
cygwin on windows. I missed all the linux utils so much -- I installed cygwin
on windows 7 years ago and haven't done without it since! You can even run
a local IMAP server on your windows box -- let your windows box download all your
email from your ISP -- then connect to the local server with Outlook or Thunderbird
and use IMAP.

OR -- better -- use your server as an email server as well!
My server downloads my email from my ISP (see linux util 'fetchmail'), then it
calls my filter script (or it could call procmail). It also calls spamassassin
before it tries to deliver it to me. But then my filter script (like procmail only
different!) sorts the emails into folders in my home directory on the
linux server under 'mail'. I then use 'dovecot' (an very fast, secure IMAP
server) to serve my email to my windows clients. Since I have multiple machines,
I don't want the email coming to one of the windows machines. It stays on the
server in my home directory. I have well over 100 file folders -- only about 70 of them
actively receive email (some are just archives/sorting bins). But in my email
clients I see all the folders by email list -- I read them when I have time --
so I don't get interrupts.

I think you'll find it's better to leave the email on the server -- that way
if you can try differnt clients (I can switch between outlook and tbird if I was so
perverse). Both will read my active mail. Groups that have new messages in Tbird
light up in blue.


>>> Seriously -- I have nearly 80 email groups I sub to...if I didn't filter
>> I'd just 'lose it'...but they all go into folders and I read them when
>> I want...if I don't, I have them setup to automatically expire after
>> a few months... it's just like a forum, but better....since it's
>> all in one place! :-)
>
> Well I am attending to about 20 forums and I am having everything in one
> place too: My email-mailbox as soon as I am getting an answer to my postings
> :-) But not 10000 other emails that need further processing ;-)
----
But you can't keep track of the 20-80 forums when you want -- in your
email client -- you have to find the websites for each of them. And just now
(and day before yesterday). when I wanted to respond to someone in forums (I
read forums too -- no choice for some groups) -- I have to 'sign up', but then
I get told that my message is going to be moderated because I don't post
enough -- so then I have to wonder if my post will even see the light of day.
It's a real pain.

But that's getting to be an old topic ....

Check out 'wireshark' and the sysinternals utils like 'procmon' and 'process explorer'.
Procmon will let you monitor processes -- wireshark can let you see if your client is waiting
for network messages...

If you know the linux utils, cygwin is a complete set -- I use it's
'X' server all the time to display utils from my linux box so I can monitor things.
Cygwin will make use of the 'unix extensions' in samba if they are enabled, BTW...

-linda

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From: Tom H. Lautenbacher on 30 Jun 2010 17:20
Hello John,

> I am using roaming profiles with windows 7 64 and samba PDC / BDCs. I
> am not using 3.4.3 however. Currently we are running 3.5.4. I did have
> 3.4.6 for a few weeks just after the upgrade from 3.0.37 to support
> windows 7. I do not have the 40 minute initial logins. However it does
> take me 5 minutes to login and logout on a 100% gigabit network every
> single time not just the first time. At some point I will look into
> folder redirection on top of the trimming of the profiles that I have
> begun..

To me this sounds like a "normal case" of overcrowded user profiles.

What I could witness in one of my networks (Samba 3 + Vista64Business) is
that the userprofiles grew very huge even thoug literally ANY userspace data
is being saved to those profiles.

What I mean is:
ALL data that the people at the workstations process is mounted on
samba-shares on the server (which I connect via script as network drives to
their profiles).

But jet again the user profiles grew tremendously, reaching up to 32GB in
one case, what resulted in >1h logon/logoff times.

In my case the error was one of the programs that they used: Adobe Bridge.
This program generates tons of cache data, which - senseless! - is being
saved into the C:\Users\<Username>\appdata\roaming folder, instead of the
C:\Users\<Username>\appdata\local folder.
Another such program is Adobe Lightroom which generates huge thumbnail
databases.

Etc.
What I want to say is: Have a look into the profiles and analyze what the
source for growing profiles is, if you have placed normal userspace data
already into normal shares so that they move out of the profile.

All the best
tom

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