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From: Robert Myers on 18 Jun 2010 15:57
Last summer I bought a box from a very big OEM at a good price.

The box would not boot on delivery because the RAM had been installed
incorrectly, so it's clear that, if the box was tested, it was tested
before the RAM was installed, and now I'm wondering at what stage of
assembly the boxes are supposedly tested (not at all after assembly?).

I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed
memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot.

I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used the
video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems while
trying to upgrade Fedora.

Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video card.
My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine would
not even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply was either
malfunctioning or marginal to begin with.

The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement power
supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing power
supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll replace
the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box remotely
and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are concerned, I
can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty repair worth my
time, so I don't worry about it.

Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power
supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing,
it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that
the power supply is often marginal or inadequate.

Anybody have any insight?

Robert.
From: Bill Davidsen on 18 Jun 2010 16:31
Robert Myers wrote:
> Last summer I bought a box from a very big OEM at a good price.
>
> The box would not boot on delivery because the RAM had been installed
> incorrectly, so it's clear that, if the box was tested, it was tested
> before the RAM was installed, and now I'm wondering at what stage of
> assembly the boxes are supposedly tested (not at all after assembly?).
>
The stage where the end user tries to boot the box, at least from the vendor you
used.

> I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed
> memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot.
>
> I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used the
> video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems while
> trying to upgrade Fedora.
>
> Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video card.
> My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine would not
> even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply was either
> malfunctioning or marginal to begin with.
>
That's a fair guess, many are sized to the need as sold. That's not an unfair
practice, just one which should be more obvious before it bites you.

> The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement power
> supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing power
> supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll replace
> the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box remotely
> and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are concerned, I
> can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty repair worth my
> time, so I don't worry about it.
>
Unless you have some reason to use a brick and mortar store, places like newegg
and tigerdirect are good sources for parts.

> Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power
> supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing,
> it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that
> the power supply is often marginal or inadequate.
>
> Anybody have any insight?

Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. The bad memory
install would have gotten a complaint from me, I doubt anyone ships without a
smoke test, at least not anyone remotely reputable. I bet someone saved a bit of
time by not doing it as s/he should.
From: Robert Myers on 18 Jun 2010 17:38
Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Robert Myers wrote:

<snip>

>
>> I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed
>> memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot.
>>
>> I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used
>> the video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems
>> while trying to upgrade Fedora.
>>
>> Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video
>> card. My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine
>> would not even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply
>> was either malfunctioning or marginal to begin with.
>>
> That's a fair guess, many are sized to the need as sold. That's not an
> unfair practice, just one which should be more obvious before it bites you.
>
Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply to the actual
sale. That means that, even if you pay outrageous prices for a
subsequent OEM add-on, it might not work. I'd call that deceptive
marketing.

>> The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement
>> power supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing
>> power supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll
>> replace the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box
>> remotely and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are
>> concerned, I can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty
>> repair worth my time, so I don't worry about it.
>>
> Unless you have some reason to use a brick and mortar store, places like
> newegg and tigerdirect are good sources for parts.
>
A Microcenter is reasonably close, and, if you shop carefully, their
prices are hard to beat.

**And**, if something goes wrong, I know how to find the store manager.

>> Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded
>> power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further
>> testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with
>> upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate.
>>
>> Anybody have any insight?
>
> Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. The bad
> memory install would have gotten a complaint from me, I doubt anyone
> ships without a smoke test, at least not anyone remotely reputable. I
> bet someone saved a bit of time by not doing it as s/he should.

The default memory configuration for this machine was two sticks. A
third stick was added to this three-channel machine as an "upgrade."

DIMM slots 0 and 2 had been installed correctly and the "upgrade" was
installed to slot 3.

This purchase was from a *very* well-known OEM. It's really hard to
imagine who, other than someone like me or a gamer, would buy such a
box. The only reason I don't name the company is that I know engineers
who work there.

Robert.

From: Robert Redelmeier on 18 Jun 2010 23:22
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Robert Myers <rbmyersusa(a)gmail.com> wrote in part:
> Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply
> to the actual sale. That means that, even if you pay
> outrageous prices for a subsequent OEM add-on, it might
> not work. I'd call that deceptive marketing.

It might well be. Perhaps this was a batch of computers
specifically built for some megacorp refresh but which proved
out to have a high defect rate -- either as RAM installation
or PSU quality. It was subsequently rejected and dumped on
the resale market where you bought it cheaply.

They ought to have been sold as "debranded", but perhaps
someone was asleep at bigOEM. Or a disobedient reseller.

The Shenzhen suicides and subsequent salary doubling
do not indicate high-quality.


-- Robert

From: Robert Myers on 19 Jun 2010 12:30
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Robert Myers <rbmyersusa(a)gmail.com> wrote in part:
>> Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply
>> to the actual sale. That means that, even if you pay
>> outrageous prices for a subsequent OEM add-on, it might
>> not work. I'd call that deceptive marketing.
>
> It might well be. Perhaps this was a batch of computers
> specifically built for some megacorp refresh but which proved
> out to have a high defect rate -- either as RAM installation
> or PSU quality. It was subsequently rejected and dumped on
> the resale market where you bought it cheaply.
>
> They ought to have been sold as "debranded", but perhaps
> someone was asleep at bigOEM. Or a disobedient reseller.
>
Not a reseller. Direct purchase from the OEM.

Your thought that my deal might have been the result of a messed up
corporate order would explain some weird things. For example, why would
anyone put two 2Gb memory sticks in a three-channel box to begin with?

The boxes don't make much sense for a big corporate purchase, but maybe
they weren't the right boxes to begin with. The order was for a more
normal corporate machine with 4Gb of memory and a core 2 dual processor.
4Gb was stuck into the wrong boxes and the boxes were tested before
someone said oops. Test the memory, tell your guys to stick it into the
boxes and offer a special deal. Who knows. The extra stick of memory
seems obviously to have been stuck in. Someone who knew to skip slot 1
would also know to skip slot 3.

Robert.


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