Microsoft lessening commitment to IronPython and IronRuby
in [Python]
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From: Michael Torrie on 10 Aug 2010 12:29 On 08/10/2010 02:07 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Tim Roberts wrote: > >> I'm not sure that's really fair. The .NET Common Language Runtime is a >> vast and very useful class library, including two complete GUI systems. The >> thought was that IronPython and IronRuby would let people who were >> comfortable in those languages tap into the CLR. > > Is there any way for a non-.NET program to access a .NET library? > Or is it necessary to drink the entire bottle of .NET kool-aid? Well the only way for a non-.net program to access a .NET library is to either embed .NET or use some kind of bridge via RPC. So basically, the answer is "no." You pretty much have to embrace .NET or not use it.
From: Jason Earl on 11 Aug 2010 15:20 On Tue, Aug 10 2010, Ben Finney wrote: > Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS(a)cybersource.com.au> writes: > >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:07:06 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: >> > Is there any way for a non-.NET program to access a .NET library? Or >> > is it necessary to drink the entire bottle of .NET kool-aid? >> >> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page > > Anyone thinking of using Mono needs to be aware of the dangers of > software patents in general, and of .NET in paticular. > > The copyright license for Mono is under free software terms. But that > gives no license at all for the patents. Novell, who have an exclusive > deal for those patents, happily encourages use of Mono by third > parties. > > The controversy has raged for a number of years. For more coverage > than you have time for, see > <URL:http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Mono>. The issue has > polarised discussion, unfortunately, and there is a lot of > name-calling and hyperbole on the record now. > > As the Mono site hints, the patent situation for .NET is *very* muddy. > Microsoft hold patents covering much of .NET, but have made a > (non-binding) “Community Promise” that applies to *some* parts of .NET > <URL:http://www.mono-project.com/Licensing#Patents>. Which is more of a promise than Microsoft has given to Python. I am not arguing for Mono, as I am not a fan. But if you honestly think that Python doesn't infringe on some of Microsoft's patents you are crazy. So where is the promise from Microsoft saying that they won't sue the Python development team into oblivion, or Python end users, for that matter? There isn't one. So while the Mono promise doesn't cover all of Mono, it does cover *some* of Mono, which is better than what Python can say. If you happen to be believe that Microsoft is likely to attack Free Software via patents then Mono is arguably the safest choice. Especially if you confine yourself to the ECMA-sponsored core and the Free Software libraries that are not re-implementations of Microsoft's technology. Jason
From: Ben Finney on 11 Aug 2010 19:52
Jason Earl <jearl(a)notengoamigos.org> writes: > Which is more of a promise than Microsoft has given to Python. I am > not arguing for Mono, as I am not a fan. But if you honestly think > that Python doesn't infringe on some of Microsoft's patents you are > crazy. It's quite true that anyone can be sued, at any time, for anything. And any program can, because of the crazy patent system in many countries, be infringing any (usually large) number of software idea patent claims, without the programmers having done anything unusual to cause that situation. Microsoft, or any other party for that matter, very well may have any number of software idea patents that could be interpreted to cover Python's code. The main difference in the case of Mono is that Microsoft has widely and repeatedly asserted that such patents do exist, their assertions seem quite plausible since they wrote the specifications on which Mono is implemented, its “Community Promise” very carefully does *not* grant any kind of binding permission to implement or use software ideas from those patents, and it has consistently wielded other such patents aggressively and maintains the willingness to continue to do so. None of that is true for Python. Which is why people aren't saying Python is a patent trap, but rather that Mono is. -- \ “Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so | `\ why should they care about it?” —Thomas Hesse, Sony BMG, 2006 | _o__) | Ben Finney |