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From: Simon Clubley on 9 Jun 2010 14:46
On 2010-06-09, hamilton <hamilton(a)nothere.com> wrote:
> On 6/9/2010 12:51 AM, Meindert Sprang wrote:
>> "Grant Edwards"<invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:huljbj$aft$2(a)reader1.panix.com...
>>> In my experience, "yuck!" is what anybody trying to use C on a PIC
>>> ought to expect. [IMO, "yuck!" is what you get using asm on a PIC as
>>> well, but that's probably a little more subjective.]
>>
>> "Yuck" is what you get when using a PIC at all.....
>> Whoever designed this architecture should be crucified!!
>
> Yes, and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
>
> Not bad for a "Yuck" design.
>
> hamilton
>

PIC: The Microsoft of the embedded world.

(eg: great marketing, lousy architecture :-))

Even as a hobbyist I rejected it in favour of the HC08 when I started
out (I was looking for something with USB device in a PDIP when I started),
even though I knew the PIC to be more popular for hobbyist work.

(For the record, I outgrew the HC08 and moved to AVRs which is a move I
have not regretted, but it would be nice to have USB device in a AVR PDIP).

Years later, I cannot remember what I disliked most about the PIC; my
lasting memory is more of coming away from reviewing it and never wanting
to go near it again. :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley(a)remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world
From: Rich Webb on 9 Jun 2010 15:11
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:46:50 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
<clubley(a)remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:

>PIC: The Microsoft of the embedded world.
>
>(eg: great marketing, lousy architecture :-))
>
>Even as a hobbyist I rejected it in favour of the HC08 when I started
>out (I was looking for something with USB device in a PDIP when I started),
>even though I knew the PIC to be more popular for hobbyist work.
>
>(For the record, I outgrew the HC08 and moved to AVRs which is a move I
>have not regretted, but it would be nice to have USB device in a AVR PDIP).
>
>Years later, I cannot remember what I disliked most about the PIC; my
>lasting memory is more of coming away from reviewing it and never wanting
>to go near it again. :-)

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/msg/c8480f9711574df7%3E
is an excellent summary. Shorter version "In spite of its numerous
shortcomings a PIC is a remarkably useful tool for certain tasks. But
then, so is a sharp stick."

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
From: Walter Banks on 9 Jun 2010 16:24


Simon Clubley wrote:

> PIC: The Microsoft of the embedded world.
>
> (eg: great marketing, lousy architecture :-))

Great customer support. Microchip has consistently supported their customers.
A couple phone calls and even when parts are in short supply they will
find some.

w..




From: WangoTango on 9 Jun 2010 17:26
In article <4C0FF87C.5C39B6C4(a)bytecraft.com>, walter(a)bytecraft.com
says...
>
>
> Simon Clubley wrote:
>
> > PIC: The Microsoft of the embedded world.
> >
> > (eg: great marketing, lousy architecture :-))
>
> Great customer support. Microchip has consistently supported their customers.
> A couple phone calls and even when parts are in short supply they will
> find some.
>
> w..

I agree, Microchip wasn't my first choice for the architecture, the 18
series and up are better, but you can't deny the availability of tools
and I have to say that Microchip has been very responsive when I have a
problem. Motorola/Freescale on the other hand was a NIGHTMARE to deal
with and we bought a butt load of 6805/68HC05 and HC11 stuff from them.
A good cross compiler hides a LOT of the PIC uglies. :)

Jim
From: Jon Kirwan on 9 Jun 2010 18:15
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:46:50 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
<clubley(a)remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:

>PIC: The Microsoft of the embedded world.
>
>(eg: great marketing, lousy architecture :-))

It is about great support not great marketing. Engineers
doing design aren't long fooled by marketing.

Microsoft worked hard (and illegally, it turned out) to
control market channels and sells into what is basically a
broad-based, largely ignorant marketplace. Microchip sells
to well-informed engineers and so far as I'm aware hasn't
acted to force illegal contract terms onto distributers.

Microchip simply supports their customers well and that
counts for something with engineers in the end.

>Even as a hobbyist I rejected it in favour of the HC08 when I started
>out (I was looking for something with USB device in a PDIP when I started),
>even though I knew the PIC to be more popular for hobbyist work.

You reminded me that I started out with the Hitatchi H8/300
before I even saw a PIC. One thing I really liked about it
was the ability to custom wire a socket up so that I could
drop the part into a bog standard EPROM writer socket and
program the code into it. Besides a great instruction set,
it was wonderful that way for me. No specialized hardware
that I couldn't afford, that way, so I was able to cheaply
program it. Nice. Still.... Microchip supports their
customers.

>(For the record, I outgrew the HC08 and moved to AVRs which is a move I
>have not regretted, but it would be nice to have USB device in a AVR PDIP).

Use what works for you. I have to say that I found the AVR
both excellent to work with on the first instrument I ever
developed (it used the AT90S2313 (memory serving).) But the
instruction set isn't by any means 'wonderful.' (I coded the
application entirely in assembly.) There are some design
decisions there that I considered 'poor,' even under the
circumstances. Extra work to carefully craft around them,
but the chip worked extremely well so I really had no
complaints at all about the experience. More, I actually
wrote quite a glowing report about the project here in this
group at the time because the documentation and chip worked
as advertised.

The support from Atmel was far, far inferior to what I later
received from Microchip, though. Microchip's support is so
much better that they aren't even in the same universe. And
so long as they field parts meeting needs, I use them. I'm
NOT using them in a current project and the part I am using
comes from a company that doesn't support it's products
nearly as well. But that's because Microchip's parts don't
qualify here and the other company's does extremely well for
the purpose.

>Years later, I cannot remember what I disliked most about the PIC; my
>lasting memory is more of coming away from reviewing it and never wanting
>to go near it again. :-)

Have you programmed an 8051 core?

Anyway, the business of selecting parts is a lot more than
some instruction set. In fact, to me the instruction set
counts for roughly zero of my consideration. So long as it
includes the basics required for doing computations and
conditional code, I don't look much further there. And
customer requirements never seem to impose instruction set
considerations so that is that.

Jon
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